Retaining fake money

texranger

unholyangel wrote: »

Was it £100? I thought it was £1000 :X Cant say i remember who placed where though or even what banks were tested Just remember there was a few of them and they used the machines that test for loads of things like weight, density or stuff like that (tbh cant remember exactly what the machines tested for either hehe)

either way i think we have all had fake coins in our pockets/purses

tkc

Sorry for bumping an elderly thread, but I think this is a damn interesting topic, and I can't find much discussion of it on the net.

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

My question to the manager of a well-known high street burger-bar was “under what act of Parliament do you claim your powers to seize my property?” Of course, he couldn’t answer it.

My understanding:
The right does not exist, but on the other hand the UK traditionally doesn't operate on the concept of positive rights; only negative rights (apart from the Human Rights Act 1998). That is, you have the right to do anything that isn't against the law.

The Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981 s.15(2) establishes the crime of knowingly passing a counterfeit note back to the customer. Now that the employee is in possession of the note, the customer's complaint would either be theft under Theft Act 1968 or a tort of conversion.

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it" Theft Act 1968 S.1 (1). It would be hard to prove that an employee following Bank of England advice in reducing counterfeiting is acting dishonestly. This is also established in section 2. (1) (a) of the same act, which provides that an appropriation of property is not dishonest if "he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person". While the employee does not have a clear right to "deprive the other of it", he also does not have the right to keep the note (tFaCa 1981 s.16(2)), or pass the note back to the customer. The only sensible option is to surrender the note to the police. In addition, it might be arguable that providing a receipt for the retained note and explaining the possible reimbursement amounts to a demonstration of no intention to permanently deprive the other of it.

I know nothing about the tort of conversion, but a quick glance in Halsbury's Laws of England provides a description of the tort as a "positive wrongful act of dealing with the goods in a manner inconsistent with the owner's rights". Maybe the owner's rights to the counterfeit note cease as soon as it is discovered to be counterfeit?

Of course, in reality no retail employee is going to fight tooth and nail to retain a dodgy tenner.

mttylad

The way I read it, there is no legal right for the retailer to deny the person who gave them the fake money from having it returned to them that person may well want to take it to the police themselves. As AFAIK that is what the law requires, that it is handed to the police, not kept by the retailer then handed to the police.

Mankysteve

I wouldn't be leaving the shop until the note was returned to my hands or the police are called and arrive.

Ectophile

Mankysteve wrote: »

I wouldn't be leaving the shop until the note was returned to my hands or the police are called and arrive.

I can imagine that this could turn bad for you if the police turn up and the note does turn out to be fake. You would then have to explain to the police why you were trying to pass off a fake note to the shopkeeper.

ajuk

Mankysteve wrote: »

I wouldn't be leaving the shop until the note was returned to my hands or the police are called and arrive.

Then they'd probably just deface it and give it back to you, that's harder with coins.

The_Pedant

It may be worth having a word with your employer & get them to outline the policy for suspected fake currency. That way you also have the backup of the defence that you were only following their policy. Even if they did say to give them back, I doubt people would lose too much sleep over the odd coin (even if it is illegal).

Additionally, with coins it's hard to give a unique receipt to acknowledge the funny money as there's no serial etc. Personally I'm happy that someone is spotting them. I get fed up when I find a dodgy pound coins that's been handed to me with a few others (I spot the lack of detail usually & sometimes the colour).