WARNING! Online bidding rip off at BCA British Car Auctions

harveybobbles

I remember that HUTH clip.

I knew an old guy who worked for Lex Vehicle Leasing in Manchester. Used to see him at BCA Bellvue most weeks.

He'd be bidding on his own cars that he'd entered. The reason - he was buying them for clients.

Company policy meant that he wasnt allowed to cherry pick before they went to auction, but if he had someone lined up he was more than welcome to bid on them.

justapoorboy

I've been reading accusations like this online for 20 years.
Back then it was Americans and american auctions, different types of auctions but the same story.

spencer777

Hi,

Really interesting post Re BCA and bidding up/fixing prices.

Ive been buying from BCA for 14 years or so mainly for vehicles for my own use, and have alway come away with a good buy and have been happy with how BCA have behaved. I have noticed of late that BCA are trying to market/sell to Joe public which Im sure small used car dealers are not too pleased about?

This is my story: Over the last month I have been to BCA twice, to a manufactures sale and large lease company sale. I was flexible and had a number of vehicles that I bid on. I did bid and noticed part through the bidding the auctioneer say "selling this lot" and at the end of the bidding the hammer fell and he said "sold". The same person purchased the lots I was bidding on. Yet 2 days later these lots are back online and for sale at the next BCA sale. I telephoned BCA and they told me that the lots did not meet the reserve price. So why is the auctioneer saying selling, banging the hammer and sold?
I think that the sellers ie the Lease company is bidding these lots up, and in this case the auctioneer/BCA are colluding with the seller to get a higher price.
I agree with some earlier posts about shill bids to get the lot up to the reserve price. I think this is ok and happens at property auctions too. But this case is different and the auctioneer is missleading the bidders by telling them the lot is selling when its not.
Any thoughts?

harveybobbles

spencer777 wrote: »

Any thoughts?

Move on with life?

RFW

spencer777 wrote: »

I think that the sellers ie the Lease company is bidding these lots up, and in this case the auctioneer/BCA are colluding with the seller to get a higher price.
I agree with some earlier posts about shill bids to get the lot up to the reserve price. I think this is ok and happens at property auctions too. But this case is different and the auctioneer is missleading the bidders by telling them the lot is selling when its not.
Any thoughts?

Check their terms and conditions, they're bound to say something along the lines of "the auctioneer reserves the right to bid on behalf of the vendor".

If they sold every vehicle to the "real" highest bidder they would be out of business in 6 months. They've always done it. I'd put a substantial bet that most of the cars you have bought from them have had the auctioneer as one of the bidders. A majority of their customers will be aware of it and pay the price they are willing to pay, sometimes getting a bargain.

They will rarely have vehicles going through sold without reserve.

Mrjimbly

It is a fact that some auctions will run up the price by accepting non existent bids from within the room and on line.
I have been buying from BCA for about 30 years, I have been in the auction hall with as few as 10 people with no idea where the bids are coming from and all of the people in the hall have questioned each other about who bid and none did so all bids were fictional.
I have also purchased a car where my bid was provisional, meaning that the car had not reached the reserve price, I then had to try to negotiate a price with the seller with the auction being an intermediary, I offered £100 more, the auction staff called the seller who sent back the message that my offer was still too low, so I made a few more offers and eventually I was told that the seller was no longer available and that the auction would call me if my final offer was accepted. I knew the company that was the owner of the car, found the person that was responsible for acceptingthe price or not. Our conversation was short bu he told me that the car had been through so mant times that it needed to be gone and that he would have willingly accepted my first offer that was made in the ring, and that BCA had NOT called about this car.
I then told Bca that I had spoken to the seller and if they called him now he will confirm this, I bought the car, drove it home and sat stewing knowing that I had just been ripped off by BCA, I then drove the car back told them what I knew had happened, and how they had committed fraud by lying in order to maximise their commission and also every entry by the seller would have a cost. They offered my money back as long as I could say that the car has a fault, I did not have any major faults but I wanted my money back because of fraud, they told me that if I wanted to put fraud as my reason that I would have to take them to court and that could cost a fortune and take years, and of course I could loose, where as if I put on the sheet that the car was faulty I would have my money put back on my card now, I felt I had no real choice so I put that the car had a flet battery, and I got my money back.
A flat battery is never a reason to back a car but was accepted as better for all.
I could go on I have seen it first hand many times, I now like to play with the auctioneers where I look really excited about a car and I make offers quickly and the auctioneer thinks that I will pay anything for a car then suddenly stop leaving him with his fictional bid, and they often don't know what to do now, often they will call me over and tell me that the higher bidder has no deposit or has disappeared or some other lame excuse for why they are now offering me the car, I always decline their offer thanks. All traders know this happens, but accept it and moan about it to each other, where as mostly the sellers are happy as fictional bids mean higher returns for them.
Fictional bids are illegal but hard to prove, also the only reason that an auction can sell without consumer rights is because of competitive tender, if there is no other real bidder being your competitor then you would have full consumer rights and warranty etc, exactly as you actually do have if your bid is rejected and you negotiate a price with the seller via the provisionals department.
This is no longer an auction sale as the competitive element of the sale has been removed and is a straight forward sale with the auction house acting as a retailer as they are the people that you are dealing with and are as responsible as any car dealer selling you the same car on a for out or from his house. This is the same as a car dealer offering a car on behalf of someone else (a sale or return car), this is a sale between you and the person that you are actually speaking to not the person that owns the car.

RFW

Mrjimbly wrote: »

Fictional bids are illegal but hard to prove, also the only reason that an auction can sell without consumer rights is because of competitive tender, if there is no other real bidder being your competitor then you would have full consumer rights and warranty etc, exactly as you actually do have if your bid is rejected and you negotiate a price with the seller via the provisionals department.

They would just say that they are "bidding on behalf of the vendor", which is legal, with or without the permission/consent of the vendor.

I don't really see why some of these places bother with the hassle of having a physical public auction, the technology is available for them to do something very different. It wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a sale that was a little more honest for both buyers and sellers. I've barely ever dealt in cars (I did a few auctions back in the day) but I do know there is one very honest saleroom local to me. So I know it can be done.

Sadly, some companies have tied themselves up in so much deceit that it's just how they work. If you run an auction where a success is selling 12% of the stock then there has to be a lot of nothing going on.

Wadadli_Cooler

The practice of throwing in fictitious bids to push up the price is known as trotting and takes place in all auctions. I've been buying at BCA as a private buyer since the early eighties and they have always done it. Particularly they use it to get rid of persistent private buyers so that their mates in the trade get the deals. Thats why you often see a prticular vehicle go through many times even though it appears to have been sold each time. The final bidder often does not exist. They use trotting to lift the mood of the auction and keep it from bogging down. Auctioneers earn a very good income for good reason.

motorguy

Wadadli_Cooler wrote: »

The practice of throwing in fictitious bids to push up the price is known as trotting and takes place in all auctions. I've been buying at BCA as a private buyer since the early eighties and they have always done it. Particularly they use it to get rid of persistent private buyers so that their mates in the trade get the deals. Thats why you often see a prticular vehicle go through many times even though it appears to have been sold each time. The final bidder often does not exist. They use trotting to lift the mood of the auction and keep it from bogging down. Auctioneers earn a very good income for good reason.

You post for the first time in 7 3/4 years to restart a thread that was started 5 years ago and not updated in a year?

tykesi

motorguy wrote: »

You post for the first time in 7 3/4 years to restart a thread that was started 5 years ago and not updated in a year?

Slowest post builder.......... EVER!