addition and subtraction

janome

Hi all.

I hope I'm in the right place for a query of this type, but I am wondering at what stage (if ever) children are taught vertical addition and subtraction. My granddaughter is in year 8 (set 2 of 7) and from what I see she is still adding and subtracting using number lines and/or breaking larger numbers into thousands, hundreds, tens etc and adding/ subtracting horizontally. Hope I've explained that correctly.

Being of an older generation I was taught to add/subtract in vertical columns, carrying to the next column. I can see how the horizontal approach is a big help to understanding when teaching number in earlier years but I am wondering at what stage, if ever, the vertical method is used. It seems so cumbersome using the horizontal method with larger numbers.

I know there are some members on the forum who know about these things.

pixelation

Written methods are usually introduced during yr 7-9. That said, most maths exams are calculator only, so it is less common to need a vertical written method and more important to understand the process.

Plans_all_plans

Interesting question! My mum taught me the way you are talking about when I was in primary school - I'm 25 now. I don't ever recall using any other way. As far as I can tell though, my mum taught me most things I'd have needed to know before secondary school herself (my primary was - and still is - useless) using the methods she was taught with, so maybe I'm an exception in my age group.

I'd just assumed that was the way it would be taught from the off. If you think she would benefit from learning the other way, bring it up with her parents or teach her it yourself.

ETA: Sorry I misread the OP and thought your GD was 8 years old, rather than in year 8. I think an 8 yr old should be able to get their head round vertical addition/subtraction, so a year 8 child should be able to do it I would think.

pozalina

Numeracy methods have changed to a range of different strategies, and vertical isn't really taught in schools now. I think it was considered a method that caused confusion. Some of the newer methods are actually ways people naturally do in their heads, and as a pp said, the emphasis is on the understanding.

I was taught vertical addition/subtraction and I remember sitting down to do homework with my dad who had been taught a simillar method but he told me I had to 'pay back' what I had 'borrowed'! Totally confused me, so I would be careful about trying to teach the vertical method to DGD.

moneysavingwannabe

We teach it in Year 4 still so 8-9 yr olds along with a range of other methods.

kingfisherblue

Vertical addition/subtraction is taught in primary school, although these days it is referred to as 'column sums'. The National Curriculum is a spiral curriculum, meaning that each topic is taught for a set period of time, then you move to a different topic. The original topic is then revisisted some weeks or months later. Initially there is a quick revision of what was taught previously, before further teaching takes place.

For example, column sums may initially be taught as addition only, with no carrying over. In the spiral curriculum, the next time the child does column sums, they will revisit what they have already been taught and then do something a little more advanced - so in my example, it may be addition with carrying over. The next time will revisit again, and maybe then introduce subtraction, etc.

Some topics are only revisited once a year - I don't know if column sums are in this category.

When I was at school, we didn't have a spiral curriculum. Instead we worked on a particular topic for the time it took for most of the classs to have a reasonable grasp of whatever it was being taught. personally I prefer it that way, as I don't feel the spiral curriculum allows enough time for things to 'sink in' for many pupils.

A child in Y8 will certainly have learned vertically written sums, but may not have grasped them very well as it is only a little time (as little as a week a year, so about five hours) is spent on learning them.

ellay864

I also think it seems cumbersome doing it the horizontal way but I think many people feel it helps children understand what the numbers actually mean, rather than just doing a task by rote learning. My sons (now 19 and 16) can do both but always prefer horizontal...my 19yr old is just finishing his first year of a maths masters degree and has always really understood exactly what the numbers actually mean. I personally dont 'get' it all but I can see why he feels it's more realistic

liney

My DS6 is in primary Year Two and the 'top group' have been taught column addition and subtraction as well as the horizontal method which is referred to as 'partioning' I think? I have taught him how to carry over and borrow because they haven't gone that far in his class yet, but he can work using either method now.

I think nowdays children are encouraged to use which ever method they feel comfortable with, so perhaps your GD has been shown but just prefers to partition?

bylromarha

I'm a primary teacher too and I was teaching column addition and subtraction to some 8 year olds last week.

Absolutely confident in what they were doing with the exchange needed in subtrraction of 100s to 10s using the column method. I even gave them 2 7 digit numbers to subtract just to prove to them that they could do it.

I'd suggest your grand-daughter is either

a) using a method she is confident using to get to the right answer, despite having been taught the column method.
b) has never been taught the column method, and never will be, as secondary school presume primary has already taught them

milliebear00001

I teach Year 5 (9 and 10 year olds) and we teach column (or vertical) addition and subtraction from about year 4. We also teach the traditional column short and long multiplication and short division from year 5 and long division in year 6.

Schools vary, and it may be that your daughter's teachers may not feel she will cope with this method, or needs further work on how numbers work (understanding of base ten) before she moves on. It's difficult to say without knowing more about your daughter's general progress in maths.

mintymoneysaver

I teach Year 5 ( 9-10) and we start teaching column ( vertical) addition and subtraction in year 4. I have the top group so we have also covered short and long multiplication using a written method, as well as the grid method. I do however let children choose whichever method they prefer as long as it gets them the right answer!
It does frustrate me though that they don't seem to go back to basics in secondary school. I have had to reteach my Year 9 daughter how to do multiplication as it has been so long since she's done it in school. I know they're as busy as us, but surely a refresher lesson every now and again wouldn't do any harm.