Lloyds credit card charges offer!!

Azrael_1701

oscar52 wrote: »

"CollectionsExpert" profile states he works in "collections"

£20 says it the same company (for want of a much more impolite word) thats in my signature. (I am judging this on the fact everyone there thinks they are an expert because of all the "training" they have in being [STRIKE]reasonble human beings[/STRIKE] automated robots)

How very nice of you to generalize an entire group of people like that, ill bear that in mind next time this "automated robot" is going to go far out of his way to help someone that needs it, that i'll just not bother in future then?

oscar52

Azrael_1701 wrote: »

How very nice of you to generalize an entire group of people like that, ill bear that in mind next time this "automated robot" is going to go far out of his way to help someone that needs it, that i'll just not bother in future then?

This is not a generalisation - this is experience. When did anyone in a collections role "care" about a customer or go out of their way to help them.

You do realise that people that work in collections gain handsome incentives for [STRIKE]antagonising customers[/STRIKE] asking customers to make payments they can more than likely ill afford.

CollectionsExpert

oscar52 wrote: »

This is not a generalisation - this is experience. When did anyone in a collections role "care" about a customer or go out of their way to help them.

You do realise that people that work in collections gain handsome incentives for [STRIKE]antagonising customers[/STRIKE] asking customers to make payments they can more than likely ill afford.

you need to be more aware of the people you're talking about before shooting your mouth off this way.

for 1, i do not work in MBNA and will not be naming the company for which i work. but it is a company that has to keep up a highly respectable brand name, while also dealing with customers in these situations.

my expertise comes from speaking to around 60-70 people a day from all walks of life struggling in all different kinds of ways, you tend to learn things pretty quickly when dealing with other peoples problems 8-9 hours a day.

collections deal with people who are in difficulty, which if you werent so small minded and hateful to these comanies you would realise.

we gain incentives/bones for various things including money recovers, quality assurance amongst other things. and we dont get these incentives from people in difficulties as the payments theyre making are usually only a tiny part of the entire income we recover. it mostly comes from people who have forgotten to make a monthly payment then call us and make it.

we very rarely antagonise customers as we hate to be antagonised as well. you think we want to sit there and be shouted at? NO! we have lives and a family to feed and some are in similar situations to those we're helping too. and FYI if you're this ignorant and hate filled on the phone, we're a lot less likely to care and go out of our way



back to the original point, if you're singing a contract for an account, isnt that you agreeing that if a payment is late you will be charged £12? and missing a payment is breaking a legal document? i dont know much about the legal side of things, and will never claim to by the way

oscar52

Perhaps you would like to re-read your post, particularly, the first sentence, then the latter part of the penultimate paragraph.

What was it you were sayinng about "being aware" and "shooting your mouth off"

Maybe you dont work for the said company, but as my signature shows, I have amongst others in the financial sector and some of the tactics employed in order to obtain payments are deplorable. - This is fact, OFT have already hauled MBNA over the coals for one example.

CollectionsExpert

oscar52 wrote: »

Perhaps you would like to re-read your post, particularly, the first sentence, then the latter part of the penultimate paragraph.

What was it you were sayinng about "being aware" and "shooting your mouth off"

Maybe you dont work for the said company, but as my signature shows, I have amongst others in the financial sector and some of the tactics employed in order to obtain payments are deplorable. - This is fact, OFT have already hauled MBNA over the coals for one example.

shooting your mouth off = talking alot of rubbish about something you dont know about.

i can only speak with experience from the company i work for (so you cant throw us all in the same catagory) and we are alot better in this department and have never had any major complaints or actions taken against us. every company is different in how they work

tifo

collectionsexpert wrote: »

if you're singing a contract for an account, isnt that you agreeing that if a payment is late you will be charged £12? And missing a payment is breaking a legal document? i dont know much about the legal side of things, and will never claim to by the way

UTCCR 1999:

5 unfair terms

5.—(1) a contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

(2) a term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

(4) it shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

(5) schedule 2 to these regulations contains an indicative and non-exhaustive list of the terms which may be regarded as unfair

schedule 2

1. Terms which have the object or effect of–
(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

6 Assessment of unfair terms

(2) In so far as it is in plain intelligible language, the assessment of fairness of a term shall not relate–

(a)to the definition of the main subject matter of the contract, or

(b)to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange.

8 effect of unfair term

8.—(1) an unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

7 written contracts

7.—(1) a seller or supplier shall ensure that any written term of a contract is expressed in plain, intelligible language.

(2) if there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail

It's clear that no credit card agreement is individually negotiated and reg 5(2) explains why reg 5(1) applies.

In order to claim preclusion of reg 5(1) under reg 6(2) the contract would first have to satisfy reg 7(1), i.e. be in plain English (easy to understand). If not, then reg 5(1) applies and the term is not binding on the consumer under reg 8(1), i.e. they don't have to pay any charges. Under reg 6(2)(i)(ii) the 'charges' term would need to be a core part of the contract (subject matter) and/or be for a service provided. It is clear that charges are incidental and triggered by a consumer breach of contract (to pay a monthly sum) and no service is provided in return.

Then there are case law precedents which confirm that, unless the charges cover costs only, they are a penalty and thus unenforceable.

The Supreme Court test case of Nov 2009 does not apply as it only assessed personal current account contracts and these were changed by the banks in 2008 so that they pass the plain English test under reg 7(1) and thus use the exclusion of reg 6(2) by showing the charges as a core part (subject matter) of the contract and a price for providing a service (assessing the customer's overdraft request).

In this case the customer is asking to borrow money. But in a credit card account the customer is forced to borrow money in the form of charges and there has been no assessment by the bank and thus no service provided.

oscar52

CollectionsExpert wrote: »

shooting your mouth off = talking alot of rubbish about something you dont know about.

So a decade of experience working for the company who are at the moment (and have been for quite some time) the countrys and Europes biggets credit card provider means I know nothing?

CollectionsExpert

oscar52 wrote: »

So a decade of experience working for the company who are at the moment (and have been for quite some time) the countrys and Europes biggets credit card provider means I know nothing?

you know nothing about the place i work. as i know nothing about MBNA. and what you were saying implies you know everything for every collections advisor there is. which is ignorant

oscar52

CollectionsExpert wrote: »

we are alot better in this department and have never had any major complaints or actions taken against us. every company is different in how they work

This statement is difficult to quantify, given you wont identify the company - perhaps you are worried about divulging information and possibly, your own identity

CollectionsExpert wrote: »

you know nothing about the place i work. as i know nothing about MBNA.

Quite possibly correct (again, I dont know who the company is). However, if you know nothing about MBNA, how will you answer a question if it comes up on the thread you created on the credit card boards HERE

ripoffbanks01

So glad my thread has given some of you a chance to blow off some steam lol.