problems with daughter at school.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

so here it goes my child (ADHD) 7 (as some may know) has had a difficult start at school particuarly with this years teacher and school passing her pillar to post to have a row for one single thing, had meeting and that side sorted.

but now, another child in class who is boystrous to say the least has started to bully my child, yesterday we found a conversation between the childs parent and another parent on stupidbook;) the conversation was on the lines of my child is the problem, and out of control and that she has instructed her child to hit my child.

me and my partner have been aware that there have been problems between the two and as my other child (her twin sibling) is in the same class we tend to get similar if not exact accounts of what happened on days they have a disagreement as she's honest and truethfull and tells it as it is or was and recently another child in class K (we'll call him) covered her in mud, but E blamed it on my daughters saying that they went over to her and threw her to the floor hit her in the eye with a stingy nettle, and grazed her but my daughter were trying to help E not fight her, 3 other children verified this to the teacher but still my daughter were punished sent to the head master etc.

so this morning we went into school and had a chat with the teacher E's mum was supposed be there too but no show, we explained to teacher that we'd prefure it if our children was separated from E from now on as we've been aware of disagreements (and teacher has mentioned E a few times to us when things happen in school) and think that time out and appart from eachother is the solution teacher agreed and i also mentioned that E was insturcted to hit my daughter, teacher said that she doesnt approve of that and will have a chat to mum when she drop E off and also chat with the class about having kind hands to eachother.

i picked the twins up, and low and behold another situation arose today at school between E and twin at lunch time and my duaghters in absolute hysterics crying.

teacher said that my child pushed over E and then fought so i asked my child what led up to the pushing and shoving and the fight, my daughter said that she was playing on the grass with her sister and another friend when E came over and pushed her on her side, my daughter said that she got up and pushed her back and said go away or ill tell miss, E then grabbed my daughter put her on the floor and started to drag her, pull and push her to the ground, and kick, daughters sister and her friend ran to miss and got her.

miss did explain that the first half of the day went without problems they were appart, and the lunch time supervisors were instructed to keep and eye out and separate when needed, but all this happened in a flash.

miss said that were both punished (my daughter and E) and sent to headmaster, and both will have to write lines on monday first break also.

i said that i think thats unfair as the fight was instigated by E, miss said that the way my daughter explained the fight was not how it was, so i turned to my other daughter (confused yet?) and asked what went on from the start, and she confirmed what had been said by her sister, so i said to teacher that even though it was instigated by E that my daughter has been punished in the same way as if she has done something wrong, yes she retaliated by pushing back, but she instructed E to go away or she'll tell miss (my daughter knew she wasnt to be by her) and the supervisors didnt keep an eye on them or this situation would of never got to a fight stage, eventhough i appreaciate that they have to watch a number of children and its demanding for them, they were instructed to keep a close eye on both by teacher specifically.

i said to teacher that my daughters been talked to and punished i wont take it further with my daughter and disagree that she should miss a monday morning break to write lines as far as i'm concerned the matter is over and hope that this doesnt happen again and that they be kept separated next week. but miss wants the punishment to be equal for both. WHAT DO I DO?

my daughter is pretty adament now that she doesnt want to go to school ever again, its hard enough on a normal day to get her there without having this stick in her head all weekend to dwell on and fear she's a toughy to get in there most days with her grabbing hold of things or not going untill she has a duvet, pot pan, purse to go in with (no we dont let her go with a pot pan or duvet but she will argue that she needs to).
other thing that E has done includes:
tipping paint over my daughters hair and clothes.
cutting their leggings and jumpers with scissors (i was buying packs of four twice a week and jumpers).
scramming and pinching, strangling.
cutting of hair.
pushing over.
punching.

this child doesnt just single out my daughters, she targets most of the class.

at a loss, school hasnt given me a good reason to keep them in their school so far and with past situation of branding her the bad one, even now she's not listened to properly and other childrens word over my bith my daughters and their friends words get taken as gospel with the teachers.

Plans_all_plans

To be honest I think you need to have a word with the school again. What does the SENCO say about your child's behaviour? Are there any strategies in place to help your child interact better with the others? Do they do assemblies etc about bullying?

It's very hard to know the truth in situations like this because siblings will tend to stick together. On the other hand, it is easy for teachers to single one child out if they've already got a reputation, so your child could be being picked on unfairly. I think by speaking to the school and trying to get to the bottom of who's actually starting the fights you'll get a better idea.

With regard to the other parent saying "hit them back if they hit you" I have to say I tell my own child to do this, because a telling off from a teacher doesn't seem to stop the aggressor in the same way as a smack back. (Not saying your child's the aggressor, just giving the perspective of someone who'd say the same thing)

The school need to get to the bottom of who is instigating the problems. If they feel they're both as bad as each other on the whole that may be why they're both having to write lines. Best of luck.

pozalina

I would agree with speaking to the SENCo, the school has a duty to meet her SENs by having strategies in place to help her. If you can't get the school to be fair, are there any professionals outside school who are involved (behaviour support, educational psychologist)? Even if not, you can still ring the city/borough/county education department and ask to speak to someone who could mediate on your behalf.

CH27

Have you spoken to the Senco or the Head?

atrixblue.-MFR-.

deputy head is the senco for the school, we had a big meeting in march and my daughter being aggressive/abusive never came up, the opertunity was there as i asked how she behaves in class and outside, my daughter has blow outs dont get me wrong, they vary in severity, depending on how the situation affects her at the time, she has an IEP, and anger management or lashing out at other children never got mentioned she doesnt tend to hit out at people (although she has when resticted bu very very rarely) more like take it out on objects or shy away into a stubborn state where she will not interact.

i know theres been a few issues with E, she has hit out at the teacher and headmaster.

we havent long had a text message from E's mum, apologising for her daughters behavior but said she was wound up because my daughter told E that her mum should stop picking on our mum and telling lies being nasty etc, but the fun thing about that is we never discused what happened with stupidbook and E's mum to or infront of our daughters yesterday, nothing was mentioned at all they didnt even know that we seen their teacher this morning as we dropped them off at breakfast club then went around the building to the class room, so couldnt of seen us at all as the hall is in the middle of the complete buiding and only windows there are the entrance door past the offices and skylights. the only time we mentione E was to tell them that they were to keep away from her from now on.

its a hard balance, i try to teach my children that fighting is wrong, you should never ever pick on children and we help others not fight others, but defend yourself when being hit, ive tought them to push away and tell them go away then tell an adult not to use fists not to kick not to scram but a simple push and warn. 7 is too young to be teliing them hit them smack them kick them punch them back. the only time they will learn these skills is when they know the results of their actions from fighting and the consequences that follows and i believe that this should be at the age of around 10-11 where when migrating to comp that they will see these things happen more frequently.

meritaten

I think its time the school stopped this malarkey! Time to write a strongly worded letter to the school governers!
I have to say that I DO know this poster personally and the people involved. I also know that there have been many, many incidents where the Posters child was wrongly accused of things (I can think of two other occasions where the teachers were made - by the headmaster - to apologise to her). Because the child is ADHD and possibly Aspergers the teachers tend to think the worst of her - when in reality she is mostly quite shy and non-violent.
Its late so I wont phone now - but pop in to see me tomorrow Atrix ok?

*Robin*

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

i know theres been a few issues with E, she has hit out at the teacher and headmaster.

First of all I'd want to know whether E also has a behavioural disorder, or is it just that you all live in a very rough area where violence is accepted as normal?
Your comment below about 10/11-year-olds and fighting at secondary school suggests this. Referring to hitting, smacking, kicking and punching as "skills" I find truly worrying:

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

ive tought them to push away and tell them go away then tell an adult not to use fists not to kick not to scram but a simple push and warn. 7 is too young to be teliing them hit them smack them kick them punch them back. the only time they will learn these skills is when they know the results of their actions from fighting and the consequences that follows and i believe that this should be at the age of around 10-11 where when migrating to comp that they will see these things happen more frequently.

You have taught your young children that it's ok to push away another child. What if that other child then fell awkwardly, fracturing their skull?

To my mind the school is right. No physical violence should be tolerated. It doesn't matter who pushed who first - both pushed so both should be punished.
Perhaps you should tell your children that you were wrong; shouting "Go away" is ok, running screaming to the supervisor for help dealing with the other child is ok, but laying hands on that child in any way is definitely not ok!

One of the children I fostered [aged 9] had ADHD (and other problems). He found life quite frustrating and was initially sometimes aggressive when he came to us. We made it clear that in our house any kind of violence would be punished by loss of privileges (in his case, we sent him to martial arts lessons to improve his confidence, discipline and attention span. If he misbehaved at school or home, he missed his next session - spending that time with myself or DH one-to-one, practising his reading).
That boy loved his tai-kwon-do, and formed a close bond with the instructor. His behaviour improved dramatically because he did not want to miss his lesson. When he went back home after around five months, the group leader found a tai-kwon-do club near the boy's home where he could continue training (and the adults from our local class clubbed together to pay for it!).

I would suggest you find a similar activity away from school to help both your daughters develop life skills that will increase their confidence. Which in turn, will help them deal with playground bullies without needing to resort to violence.

Oh, and just because your other daughter backs up her sister's story, I would not regard that as 'gospel' - especially as they're twins.
Personally I think it is very important that parents back the school - unless the school is obviously failing to manage the situation - in which case I'd move heaven and earth to get my children into a different school, or, if there is no alternative, I'd home educate them for at least a term (- had to do this with three children over the years, to resolve various issues). That requires dedication and sacrifice in other areas for the parents of course; it was not easy for us but it was definitely worth it, the whole family benefited in many ways. All three children were in front of his/her peers educationally when they returned to school after a term or a year - by which time the problem that had caused their withdrawal had faded into history, so they had a 'fresh start'.

Good luck OP. Do you belong to a local support group for ADHD families? That's a good place to start when you're looking for ways to help your daughter overcome her condition.

Mupette

print screen of stupidbook comments from E's mother show school, and text message from E's mother to school.

Seems the school and E's mother is using your daughters illness as a way to push all the blame onto her...

threaten both E's mother and the school that this is bulling not only from the parent of E or encite to bully!! but that if this continues then the school board / police will be bought in.

get the print screen of stupidbook now before it disappears

minimoneysaver

Great idea Mupette!

mrcow

If this was my child, there is no way I'd leave them in school at lunchtime to be subjected to such behaviour.

Certainly, get the school to sort it, but in the meantime, I'd also pull her out for home lunches until the school can come up with a workable plan on how to manage this.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

*Robin* wrote: »

First of all I'd want to know whether E also has a behavioural disorder, or is it just that you all live in a very rough area where violence is accepted as normal?
Your comment below about 10/11-year-olds and fighting at secondary school suggests this. Referring to hitting, smacking, kicking and punching as "skills" I find truly worrying:



You have taught your young children that it's ok to push away another child. What if that other child then fell awkwardly, fracturing their skull?

To my mind the school is right. No physical violence should be tolerated. It doesn't matter who pushed who first - both pushed so both should be punished.
Perhaps you should tell your children that you were wrong; shouting "Go away" is ok, running screaming to the supervisor for help dealing with the other child is ok, but laying hands on that child in any way is definitely not ok!

One of the children I fostered [aged 9] had ADHD (and other problems). He found life quite frustrating and was initially sometimes aggressive when he came to us. We made it clear that in our house any kind of violence would be punished by loss of privileges (in his case, we sent him to martial arts lessons to improve his confidence, discipline and attention span. If he misbehaved at school or home, he missed his next session - spending that time with myself or DH one-to-one, practising his reading).
That boy loved his tai-kwon-do, and formed a close bond with the instructor. His behaviour improved dramatically because he did not want to miss his lesson. When he went back home after around five months, the group leader found a tai-kwon-do club near the boy's home where he could continue training (and the adults from our local class clubbed together to pay for it!).

I would suggest you find a similar activity away from school to help both your daughters develop life skills that will increase their confidence. Which in turn, will help them deal with playground bullies without needing to resort to violence.

Oh, and just because your other daughter backs up her sister's story, I would not regard that as 'gospel' - especially as they're twins.
Personally I think it is very important that parents back the school - unless the school is obviously failing to manage the situation - in which case I'd move heaven and earth to get my children into a different school, or, if there is no alternative, I'd home educate them for at least a term (- had to do this with three children over the years, to resolve various issues). That requires dedication and sacrifice in other areas for the parents of course; it was not easy for us but it was definitely worth it, the whole family benefited in many ways. All three children were in front of his/her peers educationally when they returned to school after a term or a year - by which time the problem that had caused their withdrawal had faded into history, so they had a 'fresh start'.

Good luck OP. Do you belong to a local support group for ADHD families? That's a good place to start when you're looking for ways to help your daughter overcome her condition.

other childrens words are regarded as gospel even the offending childs but my daughter is always taken with a pinch of salt even when her friends back her up.

as regards to living in a rough area its not rough.

what ive taught my daughters so far as regards to defending themselfs when the time is right is appropriate, they know defending themselfs is a last resort, they know if the push another child for no reason follows consequences, only to defend themselfs when another child hit punch smack kick because as admitted by other parents here, they tell their child to respond to a bully by hitting them back children know what hitting is and lets face it some children will take that as well he hit me the other day so i'm going to go get revenge, i dont and my response to my children are, push them away and come get me or mum not to fisticuff back.

there are always risks involved no matter what you tell you children to do to defend themselfs.