Fraudulent Bank Transfer removed from my account

ayayay

This is not straightforward and would depend precisely how the fraud occured which is not clear from the post. If the fraudster hacked into an innocent person's account to make the transfer (most likely explanation) then the money was yours when it was received in your account. Given you've sent off the package in consideration for the money then you may have a defence to the bank taking it back from your account.

Quickest and best option is to refer it to the ombudsman which will cost nothing.

bpm_2

Thank you ayayay, a logical suggestion and an accurate summation of the issue at hand.

I have seen cases before (and had one) where I had received the money and verified it was there, to later find that it was in some way fraudulent. It made no difference as the money was received as payment in good faith and was therefore mine. For the bank to turn around at a later date and remove that money from me was astounding! Especially as Id already spent it, but I didnt think that needed adding to the conversation as it would have confused matters. So now Im doubly in trouble!

noh

ayayay wrote: »

This is not straightforward and would depend precisely how the fraud occured which is not clear from the post. If the fraudster hacked into an innocent person's account to make the transfer (most likely explanation) then the money was yours when it was received in your account. Given you've sent off the package in consideration for the money then you may have a defence to the bank taking it back from your account.

Quickest and best option is to refer it to the ombudsman which will cost nothing.

That's not so.
If it was as you suggest, the money did not belong to the OP when it arrived in his account. It was still the property of the person from whose account it was fraudulently obtained and the OPs bank was correct in returning it.

noh

bpm wrote: »

Yes but the scam was perpetrated on the bank and they have made me pay for it.

The credit to my account was not fraudulent, the credit came from the bank account of the person I thought it would and for the correct amount, it was the person who sent it who was the fraudulent party in the transaction.

To state that its a scam is to say that the bank has the right to withdraw ANY amount from your bank at ANY time, no matter what the payment method or who from, if they suspect it was fraud. If you are owed this money or not you would then not get it back? If you believe this how can you possibly use a bank account for anything?

If the facts are as you say then the payment to your account was fraudulent. It was not authorised by the account holder.

bpm_2

Yes but the payment to me was authorised as due consideration for that payment was given (the goods).

Im not disputing the fact that the if someones bank account was used fraudulently they shouldnt have their money returned.

But if the banks system was used fraudulently to pay me for those goods it is the bank who has been defrauded and not me. So why should I pay for the goods twice?

Olipro

noh wrote: »

If the facts are as you say then the payment to your account was fraudulent. It was not authorised by the account holder.

The purpose of the clearing system is to prevent issues of counter-party risk; if a payment is being made fraudulently, that payment should not have been allowed by the sending bank in the first place; it is not the responsibility of the receiver to ascertain whether or not any given incoming BACS/CHAPS/FPS payment is fraudulent because there is no opportunity for them to make such an assessment.

I can say one thing; the account it was sent from was almost certainly the same bank; I find it highly unlikely that the transfer would get reversed any other way unless the sending bank had compelling evidence that you were involved in defrauding the victim.

As previously recommended, take your case to the ombudsman.

noh

Olipro wrote: »

The purpose of the clearing system is to prevent issues of counter-party risk; if a payment is being made fraudulently, that payment should not have been allowed by the sending bank in the first place; it is not the responsibility of the receiver to ascertain whether or not any given incoming BACS/CHAPS/FPS payment is fraudulent because there is no opportunity for them to make such an assessment.

I can say one thing; the account it was sent from was almost certainly the same bank; I find it highly unlikely that the transfer would get reversed any other way unless the sending bank had compelling evidence that you were involved in defrauding the victim.

As previously recommended, take your case to the ombudsman.

Yes but the OP has not stated that these were cleared funds. Nor has he stated the method of transmission BACS FP or CHAPS.

JuicyJesus

bpm wrote: »

Ive never heard of a bank recalling it either, that's why I was shocked. Ive no issue with paying the guy back whos money it was, its just that I dont think they should make ME pay for it.

Why should they pay for it? They've done nothing wrong. You have no right to fraudulently obtained money. They also have no right to stiff the customer who had their money stolen.

You are best off informing the police.

I would also clarify with the bank exactly what sort of transfer was made, if indeed it was a transfer at all. It sounds like a cheque that has bounced to me.

VictimOfImpersonation

So is this the latest fantastic modus operandi of a hacked into bank ? Just great.

I am pretty certain it is also what they do to Electrical Goods companies who release thousands of pounds worth of goods to fraudsters who have obtained victim's credit cards fraudulently.

And the police have a cosy arrangement that this isn't something to investigate unless the banks want them to do so (which they don't because it exposes how weak their security is, and they don't care anyway because they make people like the OP pay for it).

Essentially banks security and CRA security is now a complete joke and millions are being lost everyday to organised crime that intercepts post from letterboxes and uses statements and replacement cards to takeover accounts online.

Or it is poor Proof of Deposit processing in the bank that allows a fraudulent cheque to get credited to an account and then it is pulled later. That is not good enough by half.

Statistically it is totally unreported crime and the Home Office and banks should be ashamed.

I am heartily sick of it and of any idiot that says the bank hasn't done anything wrong.

virgin_moneysaver

bpm wrote: »

Yes but the payment to me was authorised as due consideration for that payment was given (the goods).

Im not disputing the fact that the if someones bank account was used fraudulently they shouldnt have their money returned.

But if the banks system was used fraudulently to pay me for those goods it is the bank who has been defrauded and not me. So why should I pay for the goods twice?

not true - if a debit card is stolen, cloned etc the crime has been committed agaist the account holder & not the Bank, its a matter for the police

Can you find out how the payment was made? - did they go into a branch & make a faster payment using the chip & pin system, or was it sent via the account holders on-line banking, or chaps?