Tories showing their true colours again.

Thrugelmir

ninky wrote: »

for some things in life you don't need a degree but you do need a degree for certain professions.

if you want to become a surgeon or a lawyer it would be impossible to do so without a degree.

Half the school leavers in this country this year aren't going to achieve a grade C in Maths. A poor reflection on an educational system that in world terms is going backwards.

Largest annual provider of apprenticeships in this country is now a Supermarket chain. Says a lot for the future prospects for this country. If economically we require manufacturing to grow in value.

The old party lines are blurred with money no longer being a dividing factor. I know of several made business people who sent their children to private school. That's aspiration not elitism.

chucky

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Half the school leavers in this country this year aren't going to achieve a grade C in Maths.

half of the school leavers don't go to university.

ninky_2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The old party lines are blurred with money no longer being a dividing factor. I know of several made business people who sent their children to private school. That's aspiration not elitism.

to me that suggests that despite their achievements they feel they could have achieved even more with a better education. otherwise the logic would be to let their children follow the same university of life route they went down.

it's a short-sighted system that is happy to lose so much potential.

Thrugelmir

chucky wrote: »

half of the school leavers don't go to university.

The educational system is failing many people. A far wider concern than cost of University in my mind. As the overall skills base in this country is in decline.

Mr_Mumble

chucky wrote: »

so with that logic if you can buy tuition you have more chance of getting a degree than a person that can't buy tuition and by default has no chance of getting a degree.

Everybody can buy tuition via the loan system. Access to higher education is not limited by the state. It could be limited by the pay off the student/family thinks they'll receive from the education but that is a very good thing!

so we're going to use wealth to determine who has more chance of getting a degree instead of exams now...

No, "we" are not. The government's ability to subsidise students is limited but a university's ability to educate students at the market rate is not. There is no trade off in this proposal, someone buying tuition at full expense doesn't impact on those who get the same tuition funded by the state.

ninky_2

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

Everybody can buy tuition via the loan system. Access to higher education is not limited by the state. .

if you think the level of debt being proposed by the new system is not prohibitive to many then you are daft.

chucky

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

Everybody can buy tuition via the loan system. Access to higher education is not limited by the state. It could be limited by the pay off the student/family thinks they'll receive from the education but that is a very good thing!

that's the point, we're going to not allow a potential student to study to get a degree if the student/family cannot fund the education.

how can that be a good thing?? allowing people with more money or a better ability to pay to get a degree instead of others who cannot pay or cannot afford to pay.

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

No, "we" are not. The government's ability to subsidise students is limited but a university's ability to educate students at the market rate is not. There is no trade off in this proposal, someone buying tuition at full expense doesn't impact on those who get the same tuition funded by the state.

of course it's limited and with it being limited the government is going to cut off the ability of many to get a better education by their ability to pay and not their intelligence.

don't forget - "we're in this together".... no wait...

setmefree2

I would like to just say that this row is masking something that happened yesterday that has received no press attention.

The new tuition loans and maintenance loans are to attract interest at RPI plus 3% from the moment students take them out. At the moment (as you all know) RPI is 5%, that means currently these loans would cost 8%, meaning students who borrow £9k tuition fees plus another £5k maintenance loan will have racked up loans of £42k plus interest of £6k to £7k of interest BEFORE they have even graduated!

Furthermore, the loans will still be charged at RPI plus 3% even if the students are unemployed after graduation.

See here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/DG_194804

Loan interest rates

Interest is charged on your loan while you’re studying. Until you start repaying the loan, interest is charged at the rate of inflation plus three percent.
When you're due to start repaying your loan the amount of interest you're charged depends on how much you earn.
You will be charged the following rates of interest:

• if you earn less than £21,000 – interest at the rate of inflation
• if you earn between £21,000-£41,000 – interest at the rate of inflation plus up to three per cent
• if you earn over £41,000 – interest at the rate of inflation plus three per cent

For me this is equally as scandalous - well maybe not, but it does warrant some press attention

ILW

ninky wrote: »

if you think the level of debt being proposed by the new system is not prohibitive to many then you are daft.

I thought you did not have to pay it back unless earning a little below average wage. Not exactly prohibitive.

ninky_2

ILW wrote: »

I thought you did not have to pay it back unless earning a little below average wage. Not exactly prohibitive.

i wouldn't want to be saddled with that amount of debt before i even started working, would you? that's before you even start to look at the costs of getting on the housing ladder or building any sort of life.