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benefit shakeup for the royals
Comments
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lostinrates wrote: »some who fought in ''the war'' never saw a German. They were faced with other enemy in the second World War. While I personally do not sit comfortably with baying on a bout ''heroes'' it seems harsh to write off people in other areas of war effort.
i'm not writing it off i'm just saying that there were many ways of fighting in ww2 without necessarily fighting the nazis.
i'm sure a lot of german /japanese / italian etc soldiers did some pretty brave things also not necessarily motivated by nazism or anti-semitism. not that that is something we like to recognize.Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. - Lord Byron0 -
a fair point but you could equally say of philip's role in the navy that he wasn't there on priniciple but rather as a result of historical circumstance.
Err, he joined the Royal Navy in 1939. You'd have to be pretty out of touch not to realise that joining the Navy that year may lead you being involved in a war with Germany in the near future.0 -
a fair point but you could equally say of philip's role in the navy that he wasn't there on priniciple but rather as a result of historical circumstance.
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Sure you could. Hey, while you're at it, why not dismiss the war efforts of hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people who were involved in the war effort against tyranny, who were there for reasons due to sex, birth dates etc, rather than principle?
An incredibly weak and desperate argument, ninky.0 -
Sure you could. Hey, while you're at it, why not dismiss the war efforts of hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people who were involved in the war effort against tyranny, who were there for reasons due to sex, birth dates etc, rather than principle?
An incredibly weak and desperate argument, ninky.
to see a different cause for behaviour (determinism rather than individualism) is not necessarily to dismiss that behaviour or the suffering of those involved.
people do what circumstance and biology compel them to do but in real life even a hardnosed determinist like myself can squeeze out a "congratulations" to someone who says "i'm pregnant" or "well done" when they pass an exam.
we might just be hormonally driven recycled matter and energy but we can't but help enjoy the ride.
what are your thoughts on those who died fighting what they also considered 'tyranny' but the uk considered 'the enemy'?Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. - Lord Byron0 -
lostinrates wrote: »some who fought in ''the war'' never saw a German. They were faced with other enemy in the second World War. While I personally do not sit comfortably with baying on a bout ''heroes'' it seems harsh to write off people in other areas of war effort.
My Grandad spent a large part of the War working loading bombs onto planes. He never saw a German face-to-face but he lost a fair few comrades to the Luftwaffe having a rather annoying habit of wanting to drop bombs onto buildings that were stuffed full of high explosive.
He was no hero but he did what was asked of him in pursuit of a common goal.0 -
My Grandad spent a large part of the War working loading bombs onto planes. He never saw a German face-to-face but he lost a fair few comrades to the Luftwaffe having a rather annoying habit of wanting to drop bombs onto buildings that were stuffed full of high explosive.
He was no hero but he did what was asked of him in pursuit of a common goal.
as did a lot of the grandparents of the current japanese population (and germans, romanians, bulgarians etc). were they tyrants or just born in a different place?Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. - Lord Byron0 -
as for the moderating influence of monarchy wasn't it the queen's grand daddy that was plotting with hitler to make the uk a nazi state?
I do wish that people with little historical knowledge wouldn't try to use the little they do have to make arguments from!
The Queen had two grandfathers. Her maternal grandfather, Claude Bowes-Lyon, Earl of Strathmore, joined the (British) Army in the 1870s, and was later an estate owner with a keen interest in trees. Nothing to do with the Nazis, I think.
Her paternal grandfather, King George V, actively disliked the Nazis, and in any event, died in January 1936....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0 -
neverdespairgirl wrote: »I do wish that people with little historical knowledge wouldn't try to use the little they do have to make arguments from!
The Queen had two grandfathers. Her maternal grandfather, Claude Bowes-Lyon, Earl of Strathmore, joined the (British) Army in the 1870s, and was later an estate owner with a keen interest in trees. Nothing to do with the Nazis, I think.
Her paternal grandfather, King George V, actively disliked the Nazis, and in any event, died in January 1936.
i did correct myself a couple of posts later to say i meant her uncle.Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. - Lord Byron0 -
oh that's alright then. actually he was her uncle wasn't he? mind you her husband also had strong ties and was trained in the hitler youth curriculum (aryan myths and eugenics).
godwin's law? hard to avoid it when discussing the house of windsor.
Prince Philip went to school in Germany for a year or so - but as it was founded by a Jewish man, I don't know to what extent Hitler Youth was on the curriculum. From about the time Hitler came to power, he was at a Scottish school, until just before the Second World War started. Not much Hitler Youth at Gordonstoun, I bet.
Ties? His sisters married Germans....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0 -
i believe philip spent some of ww2 in the pacific but what exactly did he do to fight the germans?
As he joined the Navy in 1939, I imagine fighting Germans was always a probability. But the thing about the Armed Forces is that they tend to tell you were to go and what to do - my Grandfather was also in the Royal Navy during the War, and also spent much of his time in India / Ceylon / Burma / East Africa, but it would be a bit harsh to claim someone is a Nazin on the basis of being sent east!
I seem to recall that Prince Philip was in the Mediterraean at some point, certainly for the Battle of Crete....much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.0
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