Mouldy Walls...

anselld

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Without opening a window where do you think the steam from the bath will go?

Ventilation is essential - even in winter!

Yes, and not just bath, cooking, drying etc... Each person sweats/exhales 0.5-1L of water a day. If not ventilated it will condense on colder surfaces.

moromir

mooks wrote: »

The worst of the mould was in the bedroom, behind the headboard of the bed - the wall was literally black. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people behaving in a 'tenant-like manner' and I don't doubt my brother treated the place like he owned it, but short of pulling the bed away from the wall and scrubbing it every few days, there was no way this was going to be avoided - and I'm not sure even that amount of diligence would have stopped it.

Sorry but pulling the bed away from the wall on a permenant basis is exactly what should be happening. I suggest he also pulls the warddrobe and chest of drawers away from the wall. Condensation and consequently mould will often form where furniture is pushed flush to the wall as there is no way for air to ventilate. Condensation is often bad in bedrooms where hot moist air is being breathed out into a cold bedroom and the moisture just settles on colder surfaces if there is no ventilation, ie open a window, I open mine a crack even in winter to manage the situation.

moromir

themull1 wrote: »

I thought all houses/flats had to have some form of ventilation? or does it depend on the age of the property?

Without putting too fine a point on it.... the property has got ventilation... ie windows!!

dodger1

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

If they've washed the walls down and they are discoloured I'd repaint them. In fact, I'd do absolutely anything to avoid having any deductions made from the deposit. I can guarantee you 100% that this problem, even if caused by the lack of ventilation in this property, will result in a deduction being made if the damage isn't made good.

The issue is, even though there could be deficiencies in the property, the tenants are obliged to act in a "tenant-like" manner. This could mean buying a dehumidifier as that is exactly what a home-owner would do in the same circumstances.

Lots of conversations could be had about what is or is not reasonable under the circumstances but of one thing we can be certain: no landlord or their agent will accept responsibility and will be looking to the tenant's deposit to return the property to its original condition. It might not be fair but that's what will happen.

When my daughter shared a flat in her student days they had bad mould problems. They informed the agent and LL about the problem on several occassions. We bought them a dehumidifier and they regularly had windows open to aid airflow. Unfortunately the agent and LL only suggested doing what they were already doing. My daughter informed agent and LL they were already carrying out these instructions but this was having no effect on the mould. All letters were sent to the agent and LL by recorded delivery.

After graduating they moved out of the flat and as we guessed the LL said she was taking the full deposit for redecorating the two rooms where the mould was bad. My daughter then wrote to the Dispute Service with the full story and copies of all the letters and replies. We don't know what the LL said in reply but the Dispute Service found in my daughter and her flat mates favour and they had their full deposit returned. So I'd say to anyone with an ongoing problem keep records because all is not lost just because a LL tries to keep your deposit.

As far as tenants being obliged to act in a "tenant-like" manner I absolutely agree. The tenants reported the problem and did exactly as they were advised by the agent and LL and then repeatedly informed the agent and LL that the solution wasn't working. The agent and LL chose to ignore this and I believe that's why they got the full deposit returned.

mooks

Thanks everyone for your replies - they're much appreciated. I hope I haven't come across as too argumentative when I've stressed my brother's case - there's just that part of me that knows that if it was happening in my own home, that I'd be taking action to put in vents and to solve, rather than manage, the problem. Similarly, if I was a landlord I'd want to protect my investment rather than continually have to deal with a recurring mould problem - but then if all you have to do each time is take the money out of the tenant's deposit - or better still, have them repaint for you before moving out - it's not that much of an issue to you. Maybe I'm just too nice/naive...

I suppose it depends on what's feasible for the long term - years ago I lived in a flat where the boiler went and couldn't be repaired for weeks. I discussed the situation with the landlord and ended up going to the local leisure centre for showers during that time - but that was by mutual consent and based on the understanding that the problem would be resolved. If the LL had told me to shower at the leisure centre and given no indication that he'd have fixed the problem, to me that's the equivalent of telling me to turn the heating up and opening all the windows - there has to be some kind of give and take, and I have to ask how reasonable is it to expect a tenant to go to extra effort and expense to manage a problem that has come about simply by virtue of them living in the property - not through any specific negligence on their part - eating, sleeping, breathing - these are all things you should be able to do without having to constantly clear up mould as a consequence - especially when they have taken reasonable steps to prevent mould and it's still happening.

Anyway, they moved out today, so in many ways it's academic now - we'll just have to wait and see what happens now.

Thanks in the meantime for your thoughts.

Mr_Hindley

I hope this doesn't count as a thread hijack, but I'd like to come at the same problem from a landlord's perspective. I just inspected my rental property yesterday, and found that the 'slight damp problem' my agents had mentioned is pretty serious, with lots of nasty black mould in corners and around the windows. I'm pretty confident it's condensation damp; not the first time it's happened, although this is the nastiest case - although I lived in the property myself for three years, with a lodger, and never had any problems, without having to do anything particularly extreme, just applying a bit of common sense re ventilation.

The problem is probably exacerbated by having more people living there than usual - 4 adults in a 2-bed ground-floor flat, I regret agreeing to the tenancy now but I was having trouble getting tenants in due to the state the last lot had left it in Also, I discovered they have stuffed mountains of furniture and general stuff into the flat, which will be badly reducing air circulation. In fairness to the tenants, they seem like a nice bunch (if not bursting with common sense), they've been told they need to ventilate and they've been leaving the windows locked ajar. But it looks like they've also been leaving the heating on 24/7 even in the current sunny weather, not sure why unless they just don't know how the timer works, although it's pretty self-explanatory - and always keep the curtains closed when they're out.

Anyway, whatever the issues with these tenants, and whatever cleanup I'll have to do after they're gone, I'm keen to sort out some long-term solutions, ideally not totally dependent on tenants cooperating. I'll almost certainly buy a dehumidifier for the flat - though can't guarantee it will get used. I've seen airbricks, and mould-resistant paint, suggested. Although in the current situation, with so much stuff jammed against the walls, the airbricks might not help. Any other ideas, or comment on how effective these steps might be?

Landlords seem to get a bit of a bad rep on here - I do genuinely want to sort this out, not just out of self-interest, as it suits me to get, and keep, high-quality tenants - but also I don't particularly want anyone living in a mouldy flat, even if it's partly their own fault. But I'm feeling pessimistic about relying on tenants always doing what they should!

dark_lady

What would help is landlords not adhering to silly H+S rules when they put new windows in. We had new windows put in in 2004 and they can only be opened two inches wide. When we quieried this the HA said that the reason the new windows were like that was because of health and safety rules to prevent people falling out of the windows. In some cases some landlords seem to want it both ways.

Davesnave

My daughter is a student living in a smart-looking but damp house, built circa 1960.

As someone who knows a reasonable amount about houses, I'd be at a loss to say why her room is damp, were it not for the fact that the overflow from the maisonette above has been running ever since she moved in last September, and the water seems to have percolated into the walls and under the building. It could have been like it for years. Although her floor is above DPC on this side of the house, and amply supplied with air bricks, examination under the carpet reveals truly horrible things going on with the floor. The bathroom next door grows interesting mushrooms too! The window in there is always open, as it doesn't close.

I took the matter of the overflow up with the landlord when DD moved in and was assured a plumber was due 'next week.' Constant reminders have gone unheeded. A 5p washer would fix the problem, but that's too much trouble, apparently. It's crazy.

Daughter is hardy enough, has survived, and moves out next month, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have to push for the deposit.

Thanks Dodger1 for your story. There's good and bad on both sides. We have photos, so I'd recommend that others who fear for their deposits also take plenty and examine the whole house for issues which might explain particular problems with mould and damp.

dizziblonde

I didn`t lose my deposit when we moved out of a place that had a mould problem. The LL had fitted vents to other windows in the block, hadn`t done mine because I hadn`t raised it as an issue (I`d just kept on top of wiping it down etc), and mine was nowhere near as severe as the other tenants - who admittedly had made matters worse by refusing to put the (admittedly crap) heating on for the entire winter. Had windows open as much as possible - but in a ground floor flat, next to a path and as a woman living alone - I wasn`t going to sleep with the bedroom window open so an axe murderer could reach in and open it and strangle me in my sleep (ok so he wouldn`t have been an axe murderer then)... no way of preventing the windows closing fully - just a combination of design factors and lousy heating that led to a bit of a minor issue.

Didn`t change lifestyle at all in next house - no mould issues there. Our current house - gets issues with certain areas whatever we do - it`s just one of those things sometimes... I think tenants CAN be unfairly hammered when building design and similar can also be at faul - I`m sure if my old flat was centrally heated and not with the storage heaters from an ineffectual hell - it wouldn`t have had any real problems at all.

Didn`t lose my deposit though - I asked the LA to flag up to the LL that there was an issue with condensation at X and Y points, I`ve since driven past the place and he`s put window vents in on my old flat - so I`m guessing the next tenants also noticed a problem.

Lizzy

Mr_Hindley wrote: »

I hope this doesn't count as a thread hijack, but I'd like to come at the same problem from a landlord's perspective. I just inspected my rental property yesterday, and found that the 'slight damp problem' my agents had mentioned is pretty serious, with lots of nasty black mould in corners and around the windows. I'm pretty confident it's condensation damp; not the first time it's happened, although this is the nastiest case - although I lived in the property myself for three years, with a lodger, and never had any problems, without having to do anything particularly extreme, just applying a bit of common sense re ventilation.

The problem is probably exacerbated by having more people living there than usual - 4 adults in a 2-bed ground-floor flat, I regret agreeing to the tenancy now but I was having trouble getting tenants in due to the state the last lot had left it in Also, I discovered they have stuffed mountains of furniture and general stuff into the flat, which will be badly reducing air circulation. In fairness to the tenants, they seem like a nice bunch (if not bursting with common sense), they've been told they need to ventilate and they've been leaving the windows locked ajar. But it looks like they've also been leaving the heating on 24/7 even in the current sunny weather, not sure why unless they just don't know how the timer works, although it's pretty self-explanatory - and always keep the curtains closed when they're out.

Anyway, whatever the issues with these tenants, and whatever cleanup I'll have to do after they're gone, I'm keen to sort out some long-term solutions, ideally not totally dependent on tenants cooperating. I'll almost certainly buy a dehumidifier for the flat - though can't guarantee it will get used. I've seen airbricks, and mould-resistant paint, suggested. Although in the current situation, with so much stuff jammed against the walls, the airbricks might not help. Any other ideas, or comment on how effective these steps might be?

Landlords seem to get a bit of a bad rep on here - I do genuinely want to sort this out, not just out of self-interest, as it suits me to get, and keep, high-quality tenants - but also I don't particularly want anyone living in a mouldy flat, even if it's partly their own fault. But I'm feeling pessimistic about relying on tenants always doing what they should!

Im am also a landlord. I would recommend a Whole of House Air Exchange Unit. It costs around £250 and can be fitted in about half and hour if that. It goes in the loft space and the silent blower going on the landing ceiling. It forces air from the loft and eves into the house and dries out the condensation. It works really well and may eliminate the problem completely or signifigantly reduce it. There can be problems though with fire doors. The air can't circulate past them and they need to be ajar which defets the object of them. If the tenants know each other they often leave the doors ajar anyway (up to them).Also if they have beds up against the wall and furniture touching the walls it can't circulate past those either, so a room stuffed to the gills with stuff will still suffer the problem. I still had to buy a dehumidifyer for one room but the rest of the house is fine now. It costs around 1p a day to run so they say think with the fuel cost increase it could be 2p. It is left on 24/7, the walls take a couple of months to dry out so fit it during the summer and I'm sure you will notice a difference in the winter as long as the above regards doors and furniture are complied with. The company I get mine from in Kiltox off the internet. Good to get one now because if you leave it to the winter they run out of them and it will not work in time anyway. The heating in winter still needs to be up I know some people are mean with it.

Hope this helps