Mouldy Walls...

mooks

I'm sure there are lots of threads about this sort of thing but a search hasn't proved fruitful. If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be really grateful.

My brother's about to move out of a rented flat, and has had a problem with mould. He's contacted the LL/Agency on a couple of occasions and they haven't arranged a solution - simply that they've advised him to turn the heating up and to keep the doors and windows open. This advce was given in the week when we were under feet of snow - which to my mind is hardly reasonable given the impact it would have on heating bills. There's no ventilation in the flat whatsoever, and no vents on the windows. The whole block has been renovated in the past five years though, so I'm unsure why this wasn't done at the time.

To my mind, the LL/Agency has a responsibility to resolve the issue where possible. Sure, they can advise that they keep the windows open as a short term management of the situation until they get it sorted, but it's not feasible in the long term - nor is it reasonable to expect a tenant to keep the windows and doors open come rain or shine.

My brother and his girlfriend haven't been wilfully negligent - they don't for example dry their clothes in a closed room with the heating on high and the windows closed, and they use the cooker hood in the kitchen and open the window in the bathroom while showering. This is something that has happened naturally by virtue of them simply 'living' in the property.

They're a few months off having their first child together, and so need the deposit in order to move in to a larger property, but they're really concerned now that they're going to be held liable for the mould and so will lose some - if not all - of their damage deposit.

I'm sure people here have plenty of experience with this kind of thing, and so would be really grateful for your thoughts. Happy to answer any questions where I can.

dark_lady

I had similar advice from a previous landlord back in the very early 1990s only i got told to open the windows while i had a bath in DECEMBER.

BitterAndTwisted

Most causes of condensation and consequent mould are due to the tenant's lifestyle. However this is not an argument which is worth having with the agents or the landlord if your brother and his girlfriend want their deposit back in full.

They should wash all affected walls down with a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and keep the place properly ventilated to prevent it forming again until their tenancy is up. I don't think this will be terribly difficult given the current mild weather

mooks

I think that's a fair point to make, but I get the feeling the place is naturally susceptible to mould and would probably be like this even if no-one was living there - it's naturally damp, in spite of being off ground level. Because there is no ventilation in the flat - in the form of wall vents or window vents - it's nigh on impossible to keep it properly ventilated and I personally feel that even if they kept the doors and windows open, it would still be mouldy.

In terms of the deposit, I believe it comes down to whether the tenant has been wilfully neglectful and whether they've made reasonable efforts to minimise damp that might cause mould. Should they have to keep the doors and windows open day and night, in summer and winter? Is it reasonable to expect them to buy a dehumidifier? Is it reasonable to expect a tenant to pay more in heating bills and more for a dehumidifier and associated running costs when the flat shouldn't have a damp problem to begin with?

They've tried cleaning the mould but they can only get the worst off - there's still discolouration to the paint...

But regardless - this is very much a theoretical discussion at the moment - is there anyone out there - be it a landlord or a tenant - who has had an issue with mould and has had it affect the deposit, or has given them cause to go down the DPS route? If they haven't got a leg to stand on I'd rather just tell them to brace themselves for a loss.

BitterAndTwisted

If they've washed the walls down and they are discoloured I'd repaint them. In fact, I'd do absolutely anything to avoid having any deductions made from the deposit. I can guarantee you 100% that this problem, even if caused by the lack of ventilation in this property, will result in a deduction being made if the damage isn't made good.

The issue is, even though there could be deficiencies in the property, the tenants are obliged to act in a "tenant-like" manner. This could mean buying a dehumidifier as that is exactly what a home-owner would do in the same circumstances.

Lots of conversations could be had about what is or is not reasonable under the circumstances but of one thing we can be certain: no landlord or their agent will accept responsibility and will be looking to the tenant's deposit to return the property to its original condition. It might not be fair but that's what will happen.

anguk

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Most causes of condensation and consequent mould are due to the tenant's lifestyle. However this is not an argument which is worth having with the agents or the landlord if your brother and his girlfriend want their deposit back in full.

They should wash all affected walls down with a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and keep the place properly ventilated to prevent it forming again until their tenancy is up. I don't think this will be terribly difficult given the current mild weather

Sometimes it's down to the house though, we've lived in several homes over the years and have only had a problem with damp in two, one a flat and the other an old terrace, both times it was down to the structure and build of the home. Once the problem was sorted we never had damp again.

My guess is the landlord is well aware of the damp problem (especially if they've been informed a few times) but it's cheaper for them to stick a fresh coat of paint on at the end of a tenancy than actually fix the problem. Result = new tenant moves in to a nicely decorated flat, over time damp and mould appear, tenants move out, landlord keeps deposit and repaints the walls. And repeat.

If they're allowed to paint the walls, they could clean the mould off with a bleach solution then give the walls a coat of paint before they move out. If they can't repaint I'd say there's a fair chance the landlord may want to keep the deposit if the walls are marked.

mooks

anguk wrote: »

My guess is the landlord is well aware of the damp problem (especially if they've been informed a few times) but it's cheaper for them to stick a fresh coat of paint on at the end of a tenancy than actually fix the problem. Result = new tenant moves in to a nicely decorated flat, over time damp and mould appear, tenants move out, landlord keeps deposit and repaints the walls. And repeat.

I think that's exactly what happened here - when they moved in it was all freshly painted and smelt strongly of air freshener. That should have been a warning sign there and then, but then I'm a lot more cynical than my brother, and he hasn't rented before either.

The worst of the mould was in the bedroom, behind the headboard of the bed - the wall was literally black. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people behaving in a 'tenant-like manner' and I don't doubt my brother treated the place like he owned it, but short of pulling the bed away from the wall and scrubbing it every few days, there was no way this was going to be avoided - and I'm not sure even that amount of diligence would have stopped it.

The trouble now is that his girlfriend's six months pregnant and he's just had a knee operation, so I don't see them being in a position to repaint.

On review though, it looks like he's about to get screwed. I'll give him a warning then...

stiltwalker

We had this problem with our last place and yes we opened windows and bought a dehumidifier and ran it 12+ hours a day despite being on an electricity meter! I also washed the walls down regularly with dilute bleach and used sprays that were supposed to supress mould - basically all the things that could be done but still we had the mould. We raised it at every inspection but just got told to wash the walls with anti mould stuff and that "old houses are like that". I ended up repainting the whole house before we left and ended up having to do all the gloss as well as it just looked so carpy when I'd done the walls - I did at least get huge compliments on the state of the house and our full deposit back within the week. I just used cheapy magnolia paint and white gloss from the focus payless range so only cost about £40, well worth it in my opinon. If they are not up to decorating at the moment is there a friend or relative who could help out for a bit of beer money or a favour in return?

Tiddlywinks

dark_lady wrote: »

I had similar advice from a previous landlord back in the very early 1990s only i got told to open the windows while i had a bath in DECEMBER.

Without opening a window where do you think the steam from the bath will go?

Ventilation is essential - even in winter!

dibblersan

my friend was told by his landlady to keep not complain that the heating hadn't been turned on yet (by end oct last year) and to keep the windows closed instead - he said he was concerned about damp if the windows were closed and she then started to complain about tenants causing damp problems by leaving the windows open and letting the damp in.

you just can't win sometimes.

themull1

I thought all houses/flats had to have some form of ventilation? or does it depend on the age of the property?