Help Needed - Can they really do this?

miss_t_2

Thanks for clarifying that - I was concerned about the time scale as we have 2 bank holidays this week which will obviously delay the letters - otherwise the letter would have been sent today and received tomorrow. I will send one special delivery guaranteed before 1pm so someone has to sign for it and another with a certificate of posting like you suggested. This way I have two letters both with proof of postage.

Wig

If I were you I would add a few points to the letter briefly outlining the events that lead up to this
/the expected delivery on Tuesday/phone call/cancellation/acceptance of cancellation over phone/dispatch of order over £500 without your sig apparently in breach of their own policy.

Wig

Also, did the original transaction involve a purchase made entirely over the phone?

If that's the case, then a cancellation entirely over the phone should be acceptable in law, as far as I know.

asbokid

The Distance Selling Regulations are probably beefier and more relevant to the OP, but the Contract may also be in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999:

(retaining of pre-payment)

"permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract."

(verbal contract made no reference to retention of deposit or prepayment)

"irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract...terms of whose existence and content the consumer has no adequate notice at the time of entering the contract may not be binding under the general law, in any case, especially if they are onerous in character."

(changing the timeframe in which the engine would be supplied).

"enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided."

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/unfair-terms/guidance

.

miss_t_2

Wig, the transaction was made completely over the phone. They phoned us to say they had the part and it went from there.

Have ammended the letter, OH will post tomorrow if it sounds okay - sending two copies one my normal post with proof of postage. I have taken a leave of absence from the house for the night before I completely lose my mind over this.


Following our conversation and at your request on Thursday 28th April, I have sent a cancellation notice for Invoice ???? by email on the above date (copy attached). However, to ensure there can be no question that I have cancelled the order, I am also sending this cancellation notice by Royal Mail Special Delivery.

I would like to advise you that I am exercising my rights under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (DSR) and in general to cancel the order for the engine due for delivery on May 3rd 2011. I would also like to advise you that delivery of the engine will be refused.

As we have already discussed, but to clarify in writing, when the order was placed on Saturday 23rd April, Mr X informed me that delivery would take place on Tuesday 26th April 2011. However, on Tuesday 26th April, he then contacted me to say that the item could not be dispatched as due to the item being over £500, your company required documentation to be signed by myself before payment could be taken and the item dispatched. When I asked why I had not been told this earlier, I was informed that he was new to the job and had forgotten to tell me. Therefore I was not given clear pre-contractual information about the terms and conditions of the sale by Mr X before I ordered the engine, which contravenes points 2.3, 2.4, 3.1 and 3.3 of the Office of Fair Trading guide to Distance Selling. Please find enclosed a copy of the relevant sections of the guide for your convenience. You can find the complete guide at the following website address http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

In addition to this when I realised the extent of the delay that would be caused as a direct result of Mr X’s oversight, I asked for the order to be cancelled to which Mr X agreed. Once again the opportunity arose for Mr X to tell me about your cancellation policy but did not do so. He did still however take payment from my card for a sum over £500, despite the fact that no paperwork had been sent to me at that time nor had you received signed documentation from myself agreeing to your terms and conditions. Therefore not only was this an unauthorised transaction but from what I understand from speaking to both yourself and Mr Price it also breaches your own company policy regarding sales over £500.

I have also noted that your company charges a surcharge for cancellations which contravenes the DSR. However I was not advised of this when I placed the order nor when Mr X accepted my verbal cancellation. I therefore request a full refund of the money taken from my card within 14 days under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 and Section 12 of The Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1979 (as amended).

Sincerely,

miss_t_2

Looking at what I've just written I can't believe the company are defending Mr X and are telling me he is a "fabulous employee" and that he has done nothing wrong. :eek:

I understand company loyalty - if anybody came to me to complain about one of my team I would naturally defend them completely and they know that :grouphug:. However.... if they had done something they shouldn't have or were in the wrong I could not have their back over it especially if it brought our workplace into disrepute - which they also know . Hmmm does that make me an awful line manager?

asbokid

miss_t wrote: »

Wig, the transaction was made completely over the phone. They phoned us to say they had the part and it went from there.

Have [strike]ammended[/strike] amended the letter, OH will post tomorrow if it sounds okay - sending two copies one my normal post with proof of postage. I have taken a leave of absence from the house for the night before I completely lose my mind over this.


The letter is still quite defensive. Go for the throat....


Following our conversation [strike]and at your request[/strike] of Thursday 28th April, I [strike]have sent a cancellation notice for Invoice ???? by email on the above date (copy attached).[/strike]

This is written Confirmation of the Cancellation of my Order xxxx. This follows my verbal cancellation by telephone to Mr Blah on 28 April, and my emailed cancellation of xx April.

[strike]However, to ensure there can be no question that I have cancelled the order, I am also sending this cancellation notice by Royal Mail Special Delivery.[/strike]

(they will know that from the "Signed For" envelope)

[strike]I would like to advise you that I am exercising my rights under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (DSR)[/strike]

My Cancellation of this Order is exercised, inter alia, under the CP (DS) Regs 2000.

[strike]and in general to cancel the order for the engine due for delivery on May 3rd 2011. I would also like to advise you that delivery of the engine will be refused.[/strike]

Under no circumstances is the engine to be shipped to my house. If the engine arrives at my address, its delivery will be rejected.

[strike]As we have already discussed, but

To clarify in writing,[/strike]

When the Order was placed on Saturday 23rd April, Mr X informed me that delivery would take place on Tuesday 26th April.

However, Mr X telephoned me on the 26th, the date we had agreed for delivery, to say that the item would not be dispatched on that date, after all.

Mr X claimed that the engine would only be shipped at a later date, once we had agreed in writing to further Conditions relating to its sale.

These Conditions did not form part of the original Contract to supply the engine, and I refused to accept them.

My Order was consequently cancelled and Mr X accepted this at the time.

, your company required documentation to be signed by myself before payment could be taken and the item dispatched. When I asked why I had not been told this earlier, I was informed that he was new to the job and had forgotten to tell me.

Therefore I was not given clear pre-contractual information about the terms and conditions of the sale by Mr X before I ordered the engine, which contravenes points 2.3, 2.4, 3.1 and 3.3 of the Office of Fair Trading guide to Distance Selling. Please find enclosed a copy of the relevant sections of the guide for your convenience. You can find the complete guide at the following website address http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

In addition to this when I realised the extent of the delay that would be caused as a direct result of Mr X’s oversight, I asked for the order to be cancelled to which Mr X agreed. Once again the opportunity arose for Mr X to tell me about your cancellation policy but did not do so. He did still however take payment from my card for a sum over £500, despite the fact that no paperwork had been sent to me at that time nor had you received signed documentation from myself agreeing to your terms and conditions. [strike]Therefore not only was[/strike]

[strike]but from what I understand from speaking to both yourself and Mr Price it also breaches your own company policy regarding sales over £500.[/strike]

[strike]I have also noted that[/strike] your company (is not entitled to make a charge for cancellations. This contravenes the DSR, general Contract Law and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.

However, you now claim that a Penalty for cancellation of this Order has been charged. You did not advise me of any such Penalty when I placed the Order by telephone on xx April, nor did Mr X warn of any Penalty when he acknowledged my cancellation on xx April.

Such a Penalty is therefore not lawful under the DSR, the UTCCR, and under general Contract Law, and I will not be paying it.

[strike]therefore request[/strike]

I expect an immediate Refund of the £xxx.xx that you charged to my credit card on xxx April. The Order was already cancelled and that charge was unauthorised.

If this money is not repaid to me immediately, I will pursue the matter with the local Trading Standards Department, with my credit card company, and if necessary through the County Court.

[strike]14 days[/strike]. under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 and Section 12 of The Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1979 (as amended).

Sincerely,

In the circumstances, the salutation is..

Yours faithfully,

lll...................

miss_t_2

Thanks for your advice asbokid it was very much appreciated.

Have a question about something that has just arisen which is to everyone. This is getting more complicated for me now. After checking our credit card statemnet, have just seen this is now not true

I expect an immediate Refund of the £xxx.xx that you charged to my credit card on 26th April. The Order was already cancelled and that charge was not unauthorised.

They actually put the payment through on Saturday 26th and it is dated as such on my statement, and then rung OH to say they couldn't ship engine a they couldn't take payment as we hadn't signed the terms and conditions agreeing to the sale which was over £500.

Shall I therefore change to below? I am not sure what position this puts us in now as OH verbally agreed but then was told it had to be a written agreement but they charged us before that could happen anyway.

I expect an immediate Refund of the £xxx.xx that you charged to my credit card on 26th April. [STRIKE]The Order was already cancelled and that charge was not unauthorised.[/STRIKE]
The Conditions had not been signed as required by your company; therefore that charge was not authorised.

miss_t_2

Am hoping someone replies back soon as I have to post the letter as it is at 10, otherwise it won't get posted!

Flyboy152

Miss_t, I'd go with your original letter. It seems fine to me.