Moving Home - Zoopla Hurts!

brit1234

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

That's a big potential problem with renting right there.

Unless you are absolutely certain that house prices are going to tank in a spectacular manner then you're running the risk of accustomising yourself to a lifestyle you're never going to be able to buy into.

That's very dangerous psychological ground to tread if you have an ego that baulks at downsizing or losing status and aim to buy something that isn't 'beneath' you one day.

I know prices are going to tank but I do not expect to live where I rent. I live in Chelsea and there is no way I could afford to buy even if prices fall. Nor would I want to live there to start a family. I have a area outside London where I grew up in mind.

Renting and saving whilst inflated house prices are starting to fall again makes sense.

HJS86

Thanks Sugarwalsh

I think its a matter of opinion, but I would never feel comfortable renting. I like my property to be my base, my home and would never feel able to relax completely if I knew the place belonged to someone else and I had to ask permission to make changes to it.

The main reason however is that its cheaper to buy in that the mortgage repayments are cheaper. If we were renting right now, yes we'd be able to end the lease soon, but we also wouldn't be in a position to move either as the extra we'd be paying in rent would mean we'd have very little left over to put towards a deposit. A deposit which would need to be a minimum of 10%, or £12,500 in the price bracket we're aiming for. Currently as we already have a mortgage we only have to find a 5% deposit.

dopester

HJS86 wrote: »

Thanks Sugarwalsh

I think its a matter of opinion, but I would never feel comfortable renting. I like my property to be my base, my home and would never feel able to relax completely if I knew the place belonged to someone else and I had to ask permission to make changes to it.

Many potential FTBS feel the same way in not liking some of the insecurity of tenure which can come with renting. (Brit1234 isn't a homeowner, and either am I. )

Renting is strategically preferable to put themselves into schemes where they overpay for the property, risking putting themselves into hardship with even a slight market correction. You couldn't relax in rented, and you bought. Your decision. You got what you wanted.

HJS86 wrote: »

The main reason however is that its cheaper to buy in that the mortgage repayments are cheaper. If we were renting right now, yes we'd be able to end the lease soon, but we also wouldn't be in a position to move either as the extra we'd be paying in rent would mean we'd have very little left over to put towards a deposit. A deposit which would need to be a minimum of 10%, or £12,500 in the price bracket we're aiming for. Currently as we already have a mortgage we only have to find a 5% deposit.

So how have your friends done it? In your own words, many of your friends rented their homes (can't redecorate or make changes booo!) but were positioned to buy in 2010 when house prices fell to an attractive level for them to buy in your area. Were they stupid to rent, when you were buying your 1-bed MCHB apartment? How did your friends go on to buy from a position of renting, when you're now claiming you wouldn't have had the money for a deposit? Your renting friends managed to buy houses when market values fell allowing them to buy at significantly lower prices than 2008. They must have positioned themselves to scrape a circa £12,500 10% deposit for type of family house you now want to buy, whilst they were renting, when values fell to a range they thought represented good value. They left rented and bought. Because they were smarter than some other people. Smart actions deserve reward. Not very smart actions come with consequences.

HJS86 wrote: »

Is so disheartening when all our friends are moving, (two last week and one in the next couple of months) because instead of getting on the ladder straight away like everyone told us all to, they rented at really high prices, but now have been able to take advantage of this brilliant buyers market without the headache of selling something that's worth tuppence compared to what we paid for it.

Damn recession eh!! lol

Damned recession? Excellent recession for some of your friends then maybe, who waited for better value instead of MyChoiceHomeBuy type schemes. Including perhaps some youngun who bought similar apartment to you, in a different block, at circa £45K it was up as a repo for.

You bought in late 2008. The recession was good for you when you thought you were getting value at £80,000 compared to prices others had paid before. You're just now learning that prices/values can fall and fall, especially when exceptionally over-inflated in the first place for 1 bed newbuild hole in areas prone to heavy recessionary outcomes. What do the people who told you to 'get on the ladder' have to say for themselves now? Also you can't put blame on 'unforeseen' recessionary pressures given you bought in late 2008. And many of the government cuts are still set to come in, as some of us expected when refusing to overpay for 'wanting it now.'

HJS86 wrote: »

Well we thought that because we'd managed to get it at £80,000 even though it was originally on for £106,000 that we'd been the lucky ones and had managed to buy it at the bottom of the market. But obviously we were only half way down the fall!

The fear of missing the boat is just a case of pure impatience really lol, we're desperate for children and our current living quarters just arent big enough to accomodate all that a baby would bring. We're obviously looking at this fantastic buyers market at the moment with our buyer's hats on, when in reality, were a seller at the moment.

HJS86 wrote: »

It will only be like we've rented for the past 2.5 years anyway if you want to put it into 'dead money' terms. No biggy.

Its a sad situation but not the end of the world. I see property as a home, not a money making scheme. We'd just like the oppertunity to move and get on with the rest of our lives, which includes lots of good times, gardening (cant wait) and some little bundles

Only if you manage to sell for a price you hope it's worth. When flats in similar block have come to market at £45,000, repo'ed by the lender... there is a big test on value discovery in your area.

You've got a list of what you want in life. So do many of us. Including a future nice family house with garden and room for future kids. That you couldn't abide renting anyway.

Well you've got some of what you wanted, including your 1 bed apartment. You don't have to worry about redecorating like a tenant might.

Now have consequences to deal with selling a 1 bed leasehold flat where you even now find service charges can go up (other recent thread) and rest of the apartments are Housing Association owned and tenanted. The world does not exist to give people everything they immediately want, and immediate wants satisfied by very questionable schemes can have serious consequences. Especially when buying expecting prices to go up, and secretly thinking friends not clever by remaining in rented insecure homes and paying high levels of rent for the priviledge. (1. Can't stand renting so will go via MyChoiceHomebuy and buy a 1 bed flat for £80,000 (a whack off amount of money imo in terms of value in most of the UK except Central London and other really desirable regions). 2. Want to sell at an unrealistic price so can buy a family house at not much more money from what trying to sell flat at.

dopester

My tone above less caring now, because of statements made by the OP about renting, and a few other examples of their immediate needs, expectations and their own decisions so far.

Also for not heeding warnings in advance of buying their apartment. In late 2008, in the lead up to their purchase, Brit1234 was posting directly to the OP in a different MSE thread, warning of many risks in the OP would be taking on if buying via MCHB.

The OP jumping through hoops to buy, and having to deal with a MCHB 'caseworker' to make their purchase happen. A caseworker! To make your property dreams come true and get you the money required to overpay. Can't rent of course because don't like the insecurity of tenure and hoping for house prices to go up after purchase.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/15608669#Comment_15608669

The OP went ahead regardless, and they were hoping property prices would go UP after they bought. Stated in the above 2008 thread.

They're in direct conflict with positions held by myself and Brit1234, still hoping for better value when we come to buy. They're also now paying for the decisions they took in having an apartment with a mortgage + a MyChoiceHomeBuy dock-off loan. I had some sympathy but evaporated in some statements by the OP. Decisions brought on by themselves, and can't always have what you want when you get it so wrong in your decisions and even in your outlook (wanting prices to rise after you buy).

I can guarantee your friends who were renting in 2008 and who went on to buy themselves houses in 2010 were hoping for prices to fall, so they could buy a home/house at much better value. Again in direct conflict with your own position of hoping for house prices to rise after purchase of a 1 bed apartment in 2008 via very questionable scheme to help people find debt to buy at increased/inflated asking prices.

Falls is what they got. £12,500 deposit for a house saved up or acquired whilst renting and enduring some of the insecurities, disadvantages of not being able to make all the changes to a rented home that a home-owner can. And sometimes enduring down-your-nose attitudes of people towards tenants of rented homes, especially those who can only see house prices going up and think renters are mugs for expecting continued falls, where others saw good buying value and expected more house price inflation.

Friends who did not sentence themselves to getting on the ladder at any price, via schemes which inflate values even in 2008 with major efforts to prevent values falling taking place. Who did not buy a 1-bed apartment at very questionable value in 2008 and at seriously vulnerable value discovery range in 2011 and going into the future. Friends who rented who now have houses; their own homes because of patience and calling the market better than others who bought in 2007/late 2008 (you)/09, and those who bought via MyChoiceHomeBuy help schemes with caseworkers.

You bought wanting house prices to go up after you bought. If prices rose 10% in an area from 2008, an £80K one bed apartment might be worth £88,000 (ignoring 1 bed apartments are often the hardest hit in recessions) but a £125,000 house would rise in value to £137,500. Meaning you'd have to find more money to trade up for the house you wanted if prices rose as you wanted. (Fictional £8K profit for you if selling 1 bed apartment at £88,000, but houses you like likely to be worth £12,500 more. Putting you at a £4,500 cost disadvantage in your trade up plans and your hope of prices rising.)

sugarwalsh

Goodness Dopester, you were up early this morning.

Ok, so the op made some mistakes and didn't listen to the advice. I don't think she needs bashing over the head for it though. We all have different opinions - some like to rent, some like to buy. There is no 'right' or 'wrong', just personal preference. They did what they thought was right at the time and now are stuck due to an error.

This is an open forum, people should be allowed to come and say 'hey, I cocked up, can you help?' and expect some help and good advice. I realise this also opens them up to criticism for their actions but I feel sometimes it is neither helpful nor necessary to go over old arguments. The op has already said that they are prepared to go into negative equity and wait a while until it is a level they can cope with. I'd say that is a case of 'lesson learned' myself.

Megan

nollag2006

brit1234 wrote: »

I know prices are going to tank ...

Renting and saving whilst inflated house prices are starting to fall again makes sense.

Hmmm... is this the same brit1234 who predicted that house prices would tank 50% from peak by Christmas 2009?

I see from another thread that you have also piled into gold, in the hope that gold will do better than property in the medium term.

Financial forecasting is not your strength now, is it??

:rotfl:

poppy10_2

To be fair this prediction was fairly good, aside from the timescale:

brit1234 wrote: »

HJS86 wrote: »

My advice to others sitting around with not a clue as to what you're waiting for, keep hitting that redial all day until someone answers. Ask them exactly what it is you're waiting on and don't be fobbed off with 'well you're in a queue'...

My advice is to stay well clear of the scheme. Why buy one of these overinflated properties and go into negative equity when you can buy it whole for the same price in a couple of months?

I can understand that maybe a small minority need to buy now for some reason but surely for the majority it is better to hold off.

Graham_Devon

Wow. Feel so sorry for the OP.

Can't really add anything, other than it's annoyed me so much, I have to say, I agree with Caveat Emporer in that, if possible, you use this situation to do all you can to help others and get this in the press. It may even help if you can sell the story.

First things first, for me, would be stop listening to those in the business. Thats estate agents, nationwide etc. Just stop listening. They are the very people who put you in this position.

You have been ripped off at every single opportunity. The builders ripped you off, the HA have ripped you off. The government have ripped you off.

Estate agents are ripping you off, telling you it's valued higher than its worth, and preying on basic human greed...i.e the higher they value, the more likely they are to get you on their books, and you paying fee's to them, which they will profit on. They don't need to sell to make a profit. you still seem to be falling for this simple trick unfortunately.

I think you really need to undergo a stark period of acceptance.

You are not going to sell this flat to anyone but the HA or a BTL investor. No one in their right minds is going to buy a flat / apartment where the rest of the block is inhabited by HA tenants. Not at anything near the price you want. I'd go as far as to say you'd need to market is UNDER 50k to sell it to a private occupier, as you have a massive issue being the only owner occupier.

I'm not trying to be harsh or condesending, but you really need to wake up and stop getting your hopes up, wasting time AND money trying to sell. It's just not going to happen at these prices unless you get majorly lucky (which you do actually deserve), but that's going to mean passing yoru situation on to someone else. Even then, those you sell to simply won't get the mortgage for the flat as it's not worth what you want to sell it for.

I'd seriously urge going to the media. I for one would be interested in helping and I'm sure others would. If that's not an option for you personally.... what are the terms of your homebuy loan? Do you have to pay the full amount back? Some schemes do shelter the buyer from some of the negative equity. However, I believe you are on the worst scheme, which burdens the buyer with every aspect?

I can't give any more advice. My biggest advice would be to listen to those who you may feel insulted by, rather than those professionals usherhing you on, as all they are doing is continuing to extract money from you by giving you hope, the same as they did when you bought. Those who you may feel a bit upset by would have stopped you even entering into this mess if they could....plus, they don't make a penny from it.

I hope if nothing else, the above paragraph in my post is a slight wake up call. The only people insulting you are those extracting money from you in the pretence that they are on your side. The only reason you are where you are, is because of those people.

Get the media involved, realise the situation you are in, realise your buyer will likely only be a HA or BTL investor and that therefore you are wasting your time paying for it to be advertised in the ways you are, and realise you have unknowingly bent over for every single one of these parasites one too many times and you have to stop.

I do feel terribly for you. So if we can help to get this into the media if you will allow it, I'd be happy to help. First problem is finding a paper to go with it, as most of them are pro these schemes in the first place.

Graham_Devon

Didn't see dopesters post about Brit. But theres the VERY example of those who you feel insulted by now trying to stop you entering in the first place.

It really is time to listen to these people now, rather than continuing to believe estate agents. It's up to you, but if you really do want help, there is no point frustrating those who are trying to genuinely help and believeing those who are taking money from your pocket in return for putting a fake smile on your face through hope.

pauletruth

we bought our place in 2008 and paid 100k zoopla value it between 101k and 137k. i would be very shocked if those figures are right. but i would be happy.