Pregnant with 1st baby. Do we get anything? what about the £190 grant?

FBaby

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Benefits: £0
Total income £31,459

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £10,735
Child benefit: £3,146
Housing benefit: around £2.7k
Council tax benefit: £0
Total income around £31,341

I can't believe that I have been debating whether to ask my ex for child maintenance or not on the basis that my salary is probably three times his. Taking into account that I also pay £250 a month in childcare, I am probably hardly better off than he is, disgraceful, but I certainly won't feel so bad when I shall be telling him that it is about time he contributes something....

[Deleted User]

AnxiousMum wrote: »

On an income as a single person, with one adult non dependent child living at home, and one child in university, and three children under age 12 living at home - I would have the following in benefits: (I have used my actual salary, day care costs, rent, council tax as an example)

CTC / WTC - 9406.65 p.a.
CT Benefit - 353.47 p.a
HB - 5487.56 p.a.
CB - 2462.65 p.a.
For a staggering total of £17714.22 p.a. on top of my wages - which, take home, is £30,650 pa, plus commissions - in the region of an additional £1k (but always paid the following April). Not bad for 36 weeks work in the year, however, I get paid over the 12 months, so don't have any months where no income. On top of this though, I also have CM payments of £4000K per year for my second eldest son, but this is disregarded as income for any of the means tested benefits.

IF I was a single parent, I would also have an additional £500 per month in CM from my partner - so an additional £6K per year - making my now available funds each year, £40,650 pa. Not bad on a £16,750 p.a job.

Currently, our family take home annual money is in the region of £36,900 pa as a couple, no hb, no ctc.

Add onto that the £500 p.a. or so in CTC (10.40) per week, and CB of £2462 pa, and we have a total spendable income of £39,862.00 p.a. I still get the £4K child support for second eldest, so that's £43,862.00 p.a. total.

So - single parent spendable monies each year: £40,650 pa
As part of a double working parent home: £43,862.00 p.a. total

Hmm, £3K difference?

Looking at that figure - my OH keeps £500 to pay for his petrol, car insurance, odds and ends throughout the month, as a single parent, I wouldn't have that expense out of the family income (but as per above - would be receiving that from him in CM payments) (but based on that expenditure for him alone each month, I would actually be £6K ahead again each year as a single mum!)

Son at Uni - would qualify for student grants/university bursary which could come to anywhere between £3K and £6K per year for another two years - instead, we support him out of the family money and child support for him which is included in my 'family' income.
Kids in primary school wouldn't get free school dinners - they prefer something from home anyways, or heck, I'd be able to afford to pay for them anyway.
School transport - two in highschool (one now, one in September) would each get the free transportation to school.
Prescriptions/dental/eye exams for myself - Borderline on earnings for getting them for free, but could certainly apply to NHS on an individual case basis.

School field trips - likely could get away with a half price for them due to household income and crying poor to the HT.

Yep as time goes on, my kids will grow - wouldn't be any change for the next five years anyway - as that's when the next one will leave high school. The incoming CM from ex that is being paid for second eldest, well that goes straight from my bank account to my son's anyway - so still no financial loss there for me.

Unbelievable eh?

I feel you are having a dig at single parents and it's important to remember not everyone is a single parent by choice! I have been a single Mum for the best part of 11 Years after my long term partner decided he didn't want a Family but our Son was 10 Months old. I have always worked, since I was 12 infact I have had a job. Every night I go to bed lonely, every morning I wake up lonely, when my son is in bed, the silence kills me, the best Years of my life I have spent like this. I can claim on top of my wage some WTC CTC HB CB and get CSA, I do not qualify for any help with Council Tax.

I get free prescriptions and help with glasses, but no help with School Trips or School Meals.

I would love to have a Partner, more Kids, my own home etc etc but its just not happened for me.

Some things in life are more precious than money.

[Deleted User]

Personally I also feel nobody should be able to claim anything for more than 2 Children. Then you wouldn't hear of these multiple breeding families with 8 Kids claiming thousands and never working a day in their life. Also this would removed the need for huge council houses or massive housing benefit claims as nobody could claim for more than 3 beds!

gauly

zagfles wrote: »

On £43k with 4 kids there will still be some CTC. Not a lot, maybe £500 or so (£427 on this year's rates).

Child benefit is not going for higher rate taxpayers till 2013. And I .really can't believe it won't be tapered - if it does actually happen.

HB amount doesn't make sense - HB is tapered on net income (after tax/ni/tax credits) so if take home is the similar, HB will be similar. Max difference 65% of the difference in net (after tax/ni/tax credits). Unless the first family have savings...

Yep, I think you are right on everything (including the future change of plan on Child Benefit!). It's awfully complicated - I'm impressed at anyone who understands it.

The calculator here (http://www.moneyformums.co.uk/benefits/Benefitscalculator/tabid/88/Default.aspx) says £0 CTC but that did seem wrong.

As for housing benefit, I guess when it asks for net income that shouldn't just be the £14k but also tax credits, which makes it £0 for both families. So, who does get HB if a family of six on £14k don't qualify?

Corrected calculation:

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Child tax credits: £427 (and maybe some Child Benefit!)
Total income £31,886

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £10,735
Child benefit: £3,146
Housing benefit: around £0k
Council tax benefit: £0
Total income around £28,641

Is this right?

AnxiousMum

Deleted_User wrote: »

I feel you are having a dig at single parents and it's important to remember not everyone is a single parent by choice! I have been a single Mum for the best part of 11 Years after my long term partner decided he didn't want a Family but our Son was 10 Months old. I have always worked, since I was 12 infact I have had a job. Every night I go to bed lonely, every morning I wake up lonely, when my son is in bed, the silence kills me, the best Years of my life I have spent like this. I can claim on top of my wage some WTC CTC HB CB and get CSA, I do not qualify for any help with Council Tax.

I get free prescriptions and help with glasses, but no help with School Trips or School Meals.

I would love to have a Partner, more Kids, my own home etc etc but its just not happened for me.

Some things in life are more precious than money.

Hmm, well then you obviously don't know me very well! If I was having a dig at anybody, I wouldn't use the above scenario, I would come out with something that was in no uncertain terms, having a dig at that individual group of people I'm certainly not having a dig at single mum's - I was one, a mum of two, working full time hours with on call shift work while doing a course part time. So - you don't need to tell me how hard it is

I too would love to own my own home, unfortunately, we moved from a market where real estate is very low, and even the sale of that wasn't enough for a downpayment on a house big enough for us here in the UK, so we are renting - yes, I would love my own home, but even on our salaries, it won't happen till we have children who have moved onto their own lives and we can get a smaller place for the two of us.

I know about the loneliness of being a single parent and no, money doesn't make up for that. However, I find it astonishing that my OH goes to work, teaching unruly kids, volunteering for extra curricular activities for two hours on a Monday, two hours on a Tuesday, 4 hours on a Saturday, several away trips from family, several camping trips for a DofE program - and has to take the cr*p from parents when their child gets a detention for unruly behaviour - all for £3k? lol - Im sorry but there really IS something wrong with the system that financially, I'd be better off as a single parent - and I've shown it above using my information as a single person, and then the reality of my partner and I.

Again, not having a dig at single parents at all, just used it as a scenario to show just how far that high earners salary goes, in relation to someone who works for a lower income with the same number of children. After all, this thread was started by someone who was being lambasted as they have good family income, and 'had the nerve' to ask what they would be entitled to. Now if I asked what I would be entitled to, I'd get the same greeting I'm sure - but the above figures speak for themselves......and if I came on saying I earn in the region of £16.5k per year, I'd be given all kinds of info on how to claim the above things, so that I could in fact, earn more in my pocket each year than the person on the higher income.

zagfles

melly1980 wrote: »

Zagfles, we have had the discussion regarding pensions previously. On the maximum use of the disregard how would I go about this.

For example last year my official salary for TC was about 39.5K (41.5K in reality but 2K went into the pension). For this year my tax credits will be based on last years actual however I have chosen put an additional 4K into the pension pot from April this year to April next year. This means my actual for this year could be as low as 35.5K. Do I simply let them adjust this next year and base next years on 35.5K?

Also, if they change to UC in 2014 I am obviously going to get nothing. What is the sensible way to "play the game in 2013". From what I can see I may as well ignore trying to reduce my 2013 - 2014 salary as the UC will stop anyway?

disclaimer - melly1980 does not hold Zagfles responsible for any advice given

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the disregard because it's going to get very complicated. In previous years it was straightfowards - if you earn eg £40k then rather than putting £5k into your pension every year, you could alternate putting £10k into your pension one year, then nothing the next, then £10k the next etc and you would always be assessed on an income of £30k, rather than £35k! It seems some accountants were recommending this approach.

But now this isn't going to work as well because

a) the disregard is being cut - £10k now till April 2013 then £5k
b) there's going to a disregard for income falls from April 2012.

So this year you'll be assessed on £35.5k (you can phone them and give them this as an estimate, otherwise you'll have to wait till the 2012 renewal before getting the extra).

If you want to make use of the disregard while it's there, you could more put than £4k in this year, and correspondingly less next year, eg an extra £8k this year 2011/12 and no extra next 2012/13. Then both this year and next you'll be assessed on £31.5k (assuming you don't get a pay rise which takes your income over £41.5k). Obviously you'll need to work out whether you can afford this, it'll be a drop in income this year and a rise next year.

zagfles

gauly wrote: »

Yep, I think you are right on everything (including the future change of plan on Child Benefit!). It's awfully complicated - I'm impressed at anyone who understands it.

The calculator here (http://www.moneyformums.co.uk/benefits/Benefitscalculator/tabid/88/Default.aspx) says £0 CTC but that did seem wrong.

Yes it's wrong - took me a while to work out how, as was getting most calculations right. It's making the mistake of tapering the family element at £40k, which it shouldn't be doing if the rest of tax credits haven't been tapered away.

The turn2us calculator is the best and gives correct amounts:

https://www.turn2us.entitledto.co.uk/entitlementcalculator.aspx

In fact just noticed it is even smarter than I thought - it gives the exact amounts incorporating day-rounding-up which is very impressive. (tax credits elements are actually divided into daily amounts then rounded up to the nearest penny)

As for housing benefit, I guess when it asks for net income that shouldn't just be the £14k but also tax credits, which makes it £0 for both families. So, who does get HB if a family of six on £14k don't qualify?

I think they could depending on rent/local LHA rate. HB is reduced by 65% of income over the applicable amount. The AA for a family of 6 (4 kids) would be 19379 according to my calculations. So on a rent over £500 per month they should get some.

Corrected calculation:

Income on £43k with 4 children (from next april):
After tax/NI £31,459
Child tax credits: £427 (and maybe some Child Benefit!)
Total income £31,886

Income on 2x£7k with 4 children:
After tax/NI £14,000
Working tax credit: £760
Child tax credit: £10,735
Child benefit: £3,146
Housing benefit: around £0k
Council tax benefit: £0
Total income around £28,641

Is this right?

I make the tax credits 12317 in total for the second family, CTC 10765, WTC 1552.

zagfles

Deleted_User wrote: »

I feel you are having a dig at single parents and it's important to remember not everyone is a single parent by choice!

I didn't see that at all - she was simply pointing out the benefits advantages of single parents, which can be considerable. That's a dig at the system, not at single parents themselves. Just like when people point out the tax advantages of marriage - that's not a dig at married people.

sunnyone

zagfles wrote: »

That only applied to the Children's Tax Credit which only ran from 2001-2003. It never applied to any other tax allowances, ever.

No it wasn't. The married couples' allowance and the additional personal allowance were never clawed backed however high your income was. In the later years relief was restricted to a rate, so it'd be worth the same to a higher rate tax payer as to basic rate payer. But someone on 1,000,000 still ended up with the same benefit as someone on 10,000.

The max rate has been 40% since 1988 (till 2010).

The max rate between about 1980 and 1988 was 60%

So "your day" was before 1980 then. In which case you'd have had child tax allowances which were not clawed back whatever your tax rate.
So now you're talking early 90's? "Your day" seems to have moved around quite a lot. :rotfl:

zagfles and everyone else who hasnt met "andyandflo" mse's most persistant troll who has been banned so many times its hard to remember all his alter egos, please meet his latest one diolch who is currently deludging the boards with his lies, other crap and attempts to disrupt the boards.

zagfles

sunnyone wrote: »

zagfles and everyone else who hasnt met "andyandflo" mse's most persistant troll who has been banned so many times its hard to remember all his alter egos, please meet his latest one diolch who is currently deludging the boards with his lies, other crap and attempts to disrupt the boards.

Thanks - yes he did sound trollish I should have realised...