Storage Heaters

michaelsutherland

Hi

I've just moved into a new place and it has got storage heaters in. I've never had them before so could do with a bit advice on how they work. I've googled them and found out that I by changing the Output it dictates how much heat comes out of them and the Input changes how hot the brick inside gets - is that right? I have set the Input to 4 and adjust the Output down to 1 when I go to bed and only move it back up on an evening when it gets cool.

My main question is do I leave them switched on at the wall the whole time or only during the night when I'm wanting to heat the brick up and an evening when I want heat to come out of them. Also I am assuming that they know when the Economy 7 tariff is kicking in (what time is that as well) and heat up then and not on the more expensive day rate. It's all a bit confusing and having only been in a couple of weeks I've not got much info with regards usage to go on.

Another question, my hot water is heated by timer - if I heat it during the night should the water stay hot enough in the tank so that I can take a bath or shower in the evening or will I need to top it up first. I'm living on my own so don't need to use a full tank everyday as only doing washing up once daily at the most, my washing machine is cold fill only and I normally just take a quick shower in the morning, but do on occasion like a bath and have my kids over to stay a couple of nights a week, so bath them as well.

Thanks in advance for your help.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Your input is how much power goes into the bricks. Think of it as how high you might turn a gas oven on. Once it reaches this temperature the bricks won't get heated further. The output is how much heat you want releasing, think of it as how wide you might leave a gas oven door open.

There are some points to remember though. Firstly the dampers inside cannot retain 100% of the heat so even if output is completely off it will still release a small amount of heat. So don't set the input really high unless you're going to use it. Secondly the bricks do retain the heat well, so if your input level is set higher than you use the next day, the bricks will still be very warm the next night and not need as much heat (so the input will automatically shut off when the bricks get to that level).

The input is what you have to become a reasonably active weather watcher with. You set this according to how cold the next day is likely to be. I don't know the range on yours but the ones I use typically go between 1 - 9, 4 is reasonably high this time of year (I'm not using any heating at the moment though, no need).

Then when you go to bed you set the output off (unless you want the room heating for when you get up). The next day you gradually open the dampers (output) until the room is heated to your liking. Beware though, the heater can bite back and if your input level was set too low you can use up all the heat.

Storage heaters are a little bit of an art to get right, it is incredibly simple once you know but you do have to get used to them. In the winter the standard way to use them is to leave the switch on at the wall all the time and when your economy seven comes on it starts charging. In the warmer weather you will find some nights you turn it on, some you don't, but you have to turn it on the night before you want heat.

Some models have built in fan heaters to boost in the daytime but these are powered off day rate electricity and are much more expensive to use.

With a storage tank your water should be hot enough (so long as it is a well insulated tank) to heat overnight and it will be fine for a bath the next evening. There is a booster usually if you run out of hot water or want an extra deep soak. Ever watched Alan Partridge when he is staying in the hotel and he is on the phone to his ex? Her new boyfriend asks him about the immersion tank and Alan says 'you only need to press that for a deep bath

michaelsutherland

Aaaahh, thanks for that CitySlicker - makes it a lot clearer. My heaters go up to 6 (wish it was 11 like Spinal Tap), so have set the input to 4 in the living room (as it gets quite cold on an evening) and a bit lower in the kitchen, bedroom and hall as I'm not in those rooms very often (and its turned off at the wall in the spare room, I just switch it on the night before my kids come over). I set the output to 1 and only move it up if needed, but like I say the house isn't the warmest so it does keep the chill off.

Foggster

It is also worth finding out when you electricity switches over to E7. At the moment ours seems to go on at 2.30am and off at 9.30pm but this can vary from supplier/house to house.

I have invested in "delay start" tumble drier and washing machine, so these are delayed to come on during the night and using the cheaper tariffs. Remember E7 rates are very cheap for the 7 hours of use but you pay a higher day rate to those on standard tariffs. It is worth double checking you are on an E7 tariff and the cheap rate timings.

I have managed to get our useage to 70% night time and 30% day time use, we arent home during the "peak" times so have been able to get the cost down.

Personally I like them, would of course love to have a full central heating system but sadly with no mains gas and the cost of heating oil it would be decades before I recouped the cost of fitting it all.

michaelsutherland

I am definitely on E7 as I've only just put the electric in my name, but didn't check when the night rate was. Good idea about the washing machine, I think there is a switch at my ex's that is used for the Xmas lights, so might acquire that next time I'm round. As I'm on my own I normally only do a couple of loads a week and if I time them to finish when the E7 tariff finishes it won't be sat in the machine too long.

Richie-from-the-Boro

As ' CitySlicker ' says there is a knack, that knack is to have the (1) input dial temp set to whatever you feel comfortable with, but the (2) output dial damper [ regulator ] permanently closed.

That way you will get the maximum benefit of the 7 hours cheap rate. Once you have that set there is never ever a need to even switch the at the wall off in the summer, they will just (3) take in the correct amount of cheap electricity to deliver (4) the correct amount of room temperature per hour.

As a pensioner my day / night cost split it almost 50/50%, before I retired it was 70/30%

As an example a 3.4 kw per hour big storage radiator on E7, see below :

- when it first switches on, the elements will draw 3.4kWh per hour until it reaches its [ external temp of the bricks ] operating temperature
- it will then cycle for the full 7 hours or less till the internal temp [ (1) above ] of the bricks is reached
- setting the (2) output dial damper to permanently closed means you will only ever draw the amount needed to keep warm for the 17 hours you are ' off line '

You should [ if your tank is E7 compliment ] never need to ' top up ' unless you are spectaculary extravagant.

Kids bedroom would be better left permanently low with the (2) output dial damper [ regulator ] permanently closed, see below :

These heaters [ indeed all central heating systems ] all work with the fabric temperature of the home, this can take almost a week in the winter to come into effect, you would need the full 100% of energy input into a heater for two or thee nights untill the internal walls themselves absorb heat, at which point the need for 100% energy requiremt and its associated cost will drop considerably and still maintain the same comfortable feel.

Richie-from-the-Boro

michaelsutherland wrote: »

I am definitely on E7 as I've only just put the electric in my name, but didn't check when the night rate was. Good idea about the washing machine, I think there is a switch at my ex's that is used for the Xmas lights, so might acquire that next time I'm round. As I'm on my own I normally only do a couple of loads a week and if I time them to finish when the E7 tariff finishes it won't be sat in the machine too long.

About 30% of continuous operating appliances [ fridge feezers etc ] is used at night, washing machines / driers at this time of the year can safety take advantage of the cheap rate at 7am

HappyMJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

As ' CitySlicker ' says there is a knack, that knack is to have the (1) input dial temp set to whatever you feel comfortable with, but the (2) output dial damper [ regulator ] permanently closed.

That way you will get the maximum benefit of the 7 hours cheap rate. Once you have that set there is never ever a need to even switch the at the wall off in the summer, they will just (3) take in the correct amount of cheap electricity to deliver (4) the correct amount of room temperature per hour.

As a pensioner my day / night cost split it almost 50/50%, before I retired it was 70/30%

As an example a 3.4 kw per hour big storage radiator on E7, see below :

- when it first switches on, the elements will draw 3.4kWh per hour until it reaches its [ external temp of the bricks ] operating temperature
- it will then cycle for the full 7 hours or less till the internal temp [ (1) above ] of the bricks is reached
- setting the (2) output dial damper to permanently closed means you will only ever draw the amount needed to keep warm for the 17 hours you are ' off line '

You should [ if your tank is E7 compliment ] never need to ' top up ' unless you are spectaculary extravagant.

Kids bedroom would be better left permanently low with the (2) output dial damper [ regulator ] permanently closed, see below :

These heaters [ indeed all central heating systems ] all work with the fabric temperature of the home, this can take almost a week in the winter to come into effect, you would need the full 100% of energy input into a heater for two or thee nights untill the internal walls themselves absorb heat, at which point the need for 100% energy requiremt and its associated cost will drop considerably and still maintain the same comfortable feel.

That makes very little sense to me at all. Why would you leave it on throughout the summer that's just wasting energy. There is no need to have it on when it is warm. It'll be charging up the storage heaters every night and releasing heat into an already warm room.

Do you have E7 heating? What is your annual usage in kWh on the day units and on the night units?

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

That makes very little sense to me at all. Why would you leave it on throughout the summer that's just wasting energy. There is no need to have it on when it is warm. It'll be charging up the storage heaters every night and releasing heat into an already warm room.

Do you have E7 heating? What is your annual usage in kWh on the day units and on the night units?

Well if it makes no sense to you, read it again.

- no energy is wasted, because ;
- no energy is used, because ;
- they switch themselves off as soon as they reach (1) input dial temp you set, and ;
- in the summer or long before what we call summer they are already at temp without being switched on .. .. yes ?

Yes I do have E7 .. .. do I qualify ? .. ?

What have my personal day / night figures got to do with the above ?

grahamc2003

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Well if it makes no sense to you, read it again.

- no energy is wasted, because ;
- no energy is used, because ;
- they switch themselves off as soon as they reach (1) input dial temp you set, and ;
- in the summer or long before what we call summer they are already at temp without being switched on .. .. yes ?

Yes I do have E7 .. .. do I qualify ? .. ?

What have my personal day / night figures got to do with the above ?

I'm not certain what you are saying, but if you are saying storage heaters don't heat up when 'on' with the input (and output) set to minimum in the summer then that is incorrect for my storage heaters. In the summer, if you don't want any heating, then they should be turned off at the switch, otherwise you'll charge the heaters up with at least 1kwh, ime (and that could be unwelcomed heat during the day when the room may be too hot anyway).

Regarding the op's hot water - whether it keeps hot or not depends on many factors - the amount of water heated (could be a big full tank, or part of a big tank, or a small tank), the insulation level, and also the temperature your thermostat is set to.

In our case, we heat just the top of a big tank, to not too high a temperature, and whenever anyone wants a bath later in the day, we turn the immersion on again for 10 minutes (it may not actually heat at that time, but probably does heat for a few minutes if no hot water has been used, or 30 mins if it's all cooled/been used already.

Also, it's worth knowing that the output only controls the convective heat release, so at zero o/p, you have almost no convective heating. There's also radiative heating which can't be controlled, and happens all the time, the most just as the e7 period ends when the heaters are at their hottest - it follows from this that you almost certainly should always set the output to zero when you go to bed at night, because the room will be being heated anyhow from the radiation. Try to delay turning the output up for as long as possible into the evening. If there's still lots of heat left last thing at night, then it's a sign you could turn the input down a bit (depeneding on the next day's weather forecast of course!).

Richie-from-the-Boro

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I'm not certain what you are saying, but if you are saying storage heaters don't heat up when on with the input (and output) set to minimum in the summer then that is incorrect for my storage heaters. In the summer, if you don't want any heating, then they should be turned off at the switch, otherwise you'll charge the heaters up with at least 1kwh, ime (and that could be unwelcomed heat during the day when the room may be too hot anyway).

Regarding the op's hot water - whether it keeps hot or not depends on many factors - the amount of water heated (could be a big full tank, or part of a big tank, or a small tank), the insulation level, and also the temperature your thermostat is set to.

In our case, we heat just the top of a big tank, to not too high a temperature, and whenever anyone wants a bath later in the day, we turn the immersion on again for 10 minutes (it may not actually heat at that time, but probably does heat for a few minutes if no hot water has been used, or 30 mins if it's all cooled/been used already.

Also, it's worth knowing that the output only controls the convective heat release, so at zero o/p, you have almost no convective heating. There's also radiative heating which can't be controlled, and happens all the time, the most just as the e7 period ends when the heaters are at their hottest - it follows from this that you almost certainly should always set the output to zero when you go to bed at night, because the room will be being heated anyhow from the radiation. Try to delay turning the output up for as long as possible into the evening. If there's still lots of heat left last thing at night, then it's a sign you could turn the input down a bit (depeneding on the next day's weather forecast of course!).

Yes they should be turned off in the summer, mine have been off for a month, but I have an alternative cheap [ish ] 4kWh heat source.

My [ tongue in cheek ] comment on not turning off was to make the point that they are best left alone without the use of a damper. If sufficient storage for the housing unit was installed radiative is enough, if its not enough put an extra small 1.4kWh radiator in for £100 and improve the thermal characteristic of the house. I have not used the damper in 34 years of E7 installs in 3 different houses.

The E7 compliant tank, quantity / size is a personal issue, insulation however is quite different to a standard cylinder and designed to provide enhanced thermal characteristics. A well lagged tank will lose 2 to 3 kWh every 24 hours, and E7 tank even less standing heat loss.

The ' boost ' function only heats the top of the tank above the element anyway as you probably already know and a bath takes 40-60 gallons, that suggests your E7 tank is a 120-180 gallon size or about 700 litres intead of the usual bigger E7 cylinders of about 300 litres. Hey grahamc2003 that makes your cylinder about 150 x 40 inches, you must have one hell of an airing cupboard mate