An Open letter to RYANAIR

peterbaker

I have an updatette for those that retain an interest in such things...

This morning I finally thought I'd better progress this a little just so you can read about it here later! I pre-called my Travel insurers, Egg, to whom I paid £20 for my annual policy in December - thanks MSE (I think!) and asked them what cover I might have that might alleviate my brassic condition. They were not too sure about how they would pay me anything more perhaps than £20 delay for the first 12 hours. They started saying something about not being able to consider additional travel expenses because I didn't cancel the trip, Ryanair did. Anyway, they were not really disposed to discussing it in any depth on the phone and were soon into fobbing me off with sending me a claim form. They'd send it in 2 or 3 working days they said. I said why not today? They said because we deal with everything in date order here. I converted my call instantly to a complaint and they then said they would send it tonight. I agreed that was a proper job.

Not being one to take the first answer I get from any service industry and having forgotten the address that Ryanair gave me the other day for their "Customer Standards Department", I called them again. This time I explained that I needed something to send my insurers about the cancelled flight. That'll be £5 INSURANCE FEE they said. Oh I said and why's that? Well you don't have our insurance was the first part of the answer. I am about as likely to buy Ryanair's travel insurance as I am to buy car insurance from Lithuania and for similar reasons so I thought their reason for a fee was a bit rich. Well you can speak to our Head Office if you want I was told. So I called 0035318121212 as you do and got "Ryanair HO - Reception speaking" after a fashion. Customer Standards Department please I said. They don't take calls. Oh I said. I explained again what I needed. This time I was given a name and a fax number for my request. No mention of £5 insurance fee. So I drafted my fax and dialed the number five times before I picked up the handset to see what was wrong. That's five waisted 30 second international calls. The fax number was wrong - it was dropping into the normal Customer Services voicemail. I called again. That's not the right number you have there they said. You need 0035318121213. Addressed to same person as before? Yep. And this time it worked. So 9 international calls to find out one fax number and send one fax. Goodness knows what they cost me.

Anyway in my fax I have asked for a number of pertinent pieces of info and confirmations for my insurers. I feel much better now having whacked a decent ball into their court.

It'll be interesting to see what comes back - I suppose it might be a request for £5 insurance fee!

peterbaker

Further update: Ryanair sent a "Without Prejudice" emailed response to my fax (didn't charge £5!) but they didn't provide full information to support any "travel Delay" type claim, nor did they confirm they would not be contributing to any additional costs either, so I have asked for more information about this. They confirmed the diversion of the inbound aircraft was "due to high cross winds".

I have since used Ryanair on four more flights, trouble free. I am still a bit concerned about the standard of English spoken by the Ryanair cabin crews generally. They used to be predominantly Irish cabin crew, then good English speaking Spanish and Italian crews were recruited to assist with expanded operations to Spain and Italy I think, but now I fear that the more recent intake from a wider Europe are largely only required to demonstrate that they can memorise the sound of briefing phrases and make an attempt at saying them in the traditional "Once again...indeed..." Ryanair fashion but I am not sure they are tested for their dialogue ability. I really have been confronted by little more than a blank smile and a nod when I have attempted to speak with one or two of them about things which are not "coffee" "sandwich" "Stansted Express ticket" "Scratch card" or "perfume". Even with basic PA briefings, supposedly made by the chief cabin crew member, it is often laughable to listen to their attempts to follow a script (frequently passengers do laugh!). It is the 90 second evacuation scenario that worries me most. If you have ever watched how long it takes to empty a full 737-800 normally then you might forgive me for wondering how a multinational cabin crew with wobbly English could be sure to evacuate a plane load of Brits safely in 90 secs especially if there was some slow onset problem like a fire in the rear cabin which overcame passengers and crew in the back once everyone was seated for take-off. I keep thinking about the old 737 Manchester incident many years ago.

However, in the interest of balanced reporting, here's an interesting plus I have noted for tardy Ryanair customers - twice now I have experienced what happens when road traffic congestion causes a missed Ryanair flight at Stansted...if they can, it seems that for a flat £40 charge Ryanair will book you there and then on the next available flight irrespective of the going rate. That's no bother at all is it?

donnie_darko_3

anyone can put "without prejudice" on a letter but it aint worth a dime. it has no legal substance.

did i miss something in your email and not picked up what they said can you post thier reply word for word so those of us still interested can make our own judgment and not your opinion!!

i am off to cracow with sky euorpe tomoorow am, and jeeez they are rubbish and believe me they cant speak english but who gives a fig long as they get me there and if they dont.. what a way to go.

peterbaker

donnie_darko wrote:

anyone can put "without prejudice" on a letter but it aint worth a dime. it has no legal substance.

I understand where you are coming from but unless you can give me legal opinion on it I am not sure you are exactly right about that!

did i miss something in your email and not picked up what they said can you post thier reply word for word so those of us still interested can make our own judgment and not your opinion!!

I dunno - did you?

It said

Without Prejudice

Dear Mr Baker,

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated the 8th of March 2005.

For Insurance Purposes Only

I wish to confirm that peterbaker was booked to travel on flight FR715 on the 14th of February 2005, which was due to depart Aarhus Airport at 2245hrs. Due to high cross winds in Aarhus the inbound aircraft had to be diverted to Billund on the decision of the captain. The above named passenger was fully refunded for their cancelled flight.

Ryanair policy does not allow for the provision of food or accommodation in the event of a flight diversion or cancellation. The plane flying to Arhus was late leaving Stansted due to delays picked up during the day by the aircraft in question.

Should you require any more information, please do not hesitate to contact me at the above address.

Yours sincerely
For and on Behalf of
RYANAIR LIMITED
Roderick Nicholson
Customer Services

The only real chance I think I have of making a successful insurance claim is to tempt my insurers to pay out under my arbitrary "Travel Delay" cover which is £20 per 12 hours under my cheap £20 Egg policy (£15 if you buy one now!)

So I asked Ryanair to tell me how long I WOULD HAVE BEEN DELAYED if I had left my fate up to them that night. I think the answer is either 36 or 48 hours but they didn't answer my question.

i am off to cracow with sky euorpe tomoorow am, and jeeez they are rubbish and believe me they cant speak english but who gives a fig long as they get me there and if they dont.. what a way to go.

Yeah I have just watched BBC Watchdog about Yes Car Credit and Provident Financial - that report also left me thinking that it takes all sorts on both sides of a contract to make today's world go round tomorrow! If you can think it then it probably happens! Have a great trip!

peterbaker

Got an email today in response to my emailed reply to their emailed reply to my faxed request (with me so far?)

It was headed with the complaint reference number they gave it last time. It said "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL" "If you wish to compliment or complain about our service bla bla " then visit our website bla bla or fax bla bla or useless words to that effect. Not sure why it sprung out of the system today in response to my email dated 16/03/05.

Now this is the kind of obstropolous behaviour that no company should be allowed to get away with. In other words they force you to write a letter or fax when you wish to conduct a complaint with them, but use email themselves to fob you off.

Anyone disgree?

MyUserNamesTaken

peter, I know exactly how you feel, having been subjected to cancelled ryanair flights and diversions due to bad weather conditions (try sleeping in Niederrhein airport!).


My evening flight out of Niederrhein was cancelled due to snow (diverted to Eindhoven), yet most V-Bird planes were able to both land and take off. I'd actually arrived a couple of hours earlier than was needed due to bad weather conditions, as had many people. The flight in question was full that evening, which made matters worse. Ryanair did nothing to help passengers, merely telling us all to be back in the airport by 5am the next morning. Unfortunately, by this point (midnight) it had become impossible to book a hotel anywhere, so we were forced to sleep on any bench or piece of floor we could find. Next morning, the flight we were due to go out on was also cancelled (diverted to Eindhoven), which meant even more passengers stranded at Niederrhein and Ryanair doing absolutely nothing to help us. Eventually, after many heated words with the staff (and I felt extremely sorry for them, as they don't work for Ryanair, but for the airport), we managed to get transferred to Eindhoven and catch our plane there. The airport staff at Niederrhein organised coaches to take all the passengers to the Dutch airport to get us home. By the time we got the flight home, most of us passengers had been awake for over 36 hours. Some of the passengers asked one of the flight attendants to ask the captain if we could all have a free coffee to partly make up for the delays and diversions. It was almost funny when the captain announced over the tannoy that although he was very sorry for the delays, ryanair's policy is to not give anything away. I think that says it all.


As you can see, I do know how you feel. However, Ryanair is a low cost airline and they will not take any responsibility for flights cancelled due to weather other than to refund you the cost of your ticket. I know you don't like that, but you get what you pay for.

There are other low cost airlines out there that offer better customer service. I suggest that you use one of them in future, and avoid Ryanair at all costs. I now fly from Luton to Dortmund using Easyjet.

peterbaker

MyUserNamesTaken wrote:

...you get what you pay for.

No I didn't which is why I am complaining and not just walking away. I paid for a return flight at a certain time. It didn't happen, possibly for a reason completely out of their control, but after stating that only 20 passengers would be accommodated on the next available flight it wasn't reasonable to expect 130 odd other passengers to hang around a closed for the night airport on the offchance that sometime someday they might be offered another flight.

Some people will instantly be thinking (again!) yeah but their T&Cs say such and such, and it is regrettable but legal, and you are wasting your time (again) Peter. I think not. It doesn't cost me much to update this thread every now and then and bump it to the top of the list, and for as long as Martin doesn't mind, there's a good chance that Ryanair might get the message that we want this bit of the service improved please.

In 1977 I think, a law was passed called the Unfair Contract Terms Act. Does anyone remember why?

I have to use Ryanair because I don't have a choice for the majority of my flights. Michael O'Leary may make me smile when I hear some of the things he says on tv, but I reckon he needs dropping a peg or two for his own good (actually mostly ours) before he forms the impression he can achieve "Hail Michael" status without attending confession more regularly.

mystic_trev

peterbaker wrote:

I have to use Ryanair because I don't have a choice for the majority of my flights

Then "like it or lump it" and stop complaining - or you won't be going any where!

Baz_Bee_2

mystic_trev wrote:

Then "like it or lump it" and stop complaining - or you won't be going any where!

With respect, I'm not sure what you are doing frequenting this site then? It was the lump it or leave it attitude of most people that has lead to rip off Britain fleecing us for many years. Customer service and especially good manners cost nothing. Ryanair have a lot to learn in this respect.

They are deceitful as the recent case by brought Trading Standards over advertised ticket prices has demonstrated. Furthermore,their recent introduction of 35p(?) per ticket surcharge to cover what in effect is the provision of a wheelchair service is scandalous. This will raise them many £millions. I do not believe for a minute that their costs will be a fraction of this. But hey, lets rip the mugs off a bit more shall we?

Woby_Tide

Baz_Bee wrote:

Furthermore,their recent introduction of 35p(?) per ticket surcharge to cover what in effect is the provision of a wheelchair service is scandalous. This will raise them many £millions.

C. £9M per annum according to a report in a paper the other week, the Ryanair representative became rather bashful when the interviewer pushed them on explaining that charge