Pros and cons of lpg conversion

rag31

Hi

I am considering converting my 1999 Renault Scenic 1.6 which is doing 26-28mpg to LPG. I have done a fair bit of research and it all looks like a bed of roses, and like I'd recoup the cost within about 10 months. I'm wondering if I've missed the catch?

I have a number of garages within 10 miles of me that supply LPG and it's under half the price of unleaded so seems like a great idea as far as I can tell at the moment.

I would appreciate any advice before I make this decision.

Also, is it possible or practical to install a tank at home and bulk buy the LPG? Or is it dangerous/impossible/stupid idea etc? :rotfl:

Thanks,
Becky

gilbert_and_sullivan

I've recently converted my MB, it's older than your car but i've had this car for over 8 years and it's still low mileage and in first class condition, so i plan to keep it indefinately...so pay back didn't factor too much...there were other reasons too which i won't bore you with.

A 12 year old Scenic may not have that many years left in it, it is supposed to take around 30k miles before you start to gain from the conversion, be honest, will your Scenic cover those 30k without too many problems and then have another 30k's worth of life left...think around 6 years at average miles?

It is possible to self fit the systems, but unless you are very good mechanically it's a daunting job, and the wiring and programming up of the system is not simple.
Even when you've self fitted the car will need to be inspected by a qualified LPG installer, who if he's happy will pass it and put the vehicle on the LPG register...which you insurance company will insist on.

I don't know about buying in bulk, i don't buy LPG from garages anyway, i buy from an indy currently at 70ppl.

To be honest i wouldn't pay out on such an old normal car as i doubt you'll get the use out of it, maybe better to sell the current Reno and buy a car already converted.

If you do decide to go ahead anyway, try to find a recommned installer local to you...you will be making several trips there for fine tuning after conversion, and an annual service, so don't be tempted to pick the ebay installer 200 miles away
.
Where will you site the tank?...if you get a toroidal tank fitted in place of the spare wheel you will only have about 42 litres (less 20% expansion) of useable LPG space, can you manage on that, i got an 80 litre boot tank fitted (less 20% for expansion).

bigjl

Not sure if it is worth spending over £1000 on a megane that is worth about the same. You will have to consider top end wear due to lpg being a common cause of valve wear. The way round it is to use flashlube. A mate had to replace two valves on his Subaru Legacy. His was a 1.8 2wd that he imported from Japan himself for long distance commuting duties but at around 100k it failed the mot on emissions and then the valve problem was found, the only symptom was a very slightly uneven tickover and then the emissions. He repaired the head with hardened valve seats. And has no peblems since. I don't think i would spend the money on an old renault. It would be worth it on a low mileage mercedes or well built japanese car. I reckon you would save more buying a pre converted vehicle or a diesel.

Hammyman

Difference between petrol and LPG is 50%.

So lets say you do 12,000 miles a year.
Petrol would cost you £2588 based on 28MPG @ £1.33 a litre
LPG would cost you £1310 based on 25MPG (10% hit on MPG with LPG) at 60p per litre.

rag31

My scenic only has 55k miles on the clock, and has been very well maintained so I was expecting it to last a fair while yet? I have looked around for already converted cars in the £2000 range (cost of conversion plus if I sold the car) and can only find huge 3litre engine cars which kind of negate the money-saving aspect of it I assume? I only drive automatic too, so that further limits my choice :cool:

At my mpg, my annual mileage and the current cost of unleaded I worked out I would pay for the conversion in under a year, but maybe I've miscalculated - I'll go do my sums again

I really appreciate all your advice, thank you! Maybe it's worth me holding on to see if a ready-converted newer car comes on the market that would be a better investment.

rag31

Sorry, writing reply so didn't see yours Hammyman - that's roughly what I worked out.

But I couldn't help wondering why it's so rare if it's such an obvious money saver iykwim! Thought I must have missed some glaringly obvious downside! Still haven't found it!

Wig

I suggest you sell the scenic and get a car already converted, it should/might work out cheaper/better value overall.

You currently get 26mpg on petrol that's roughly

15000 miles for £3410 petrol @ £1.30 @26mpg

15000 miles for £2273 LPG @ 70p @ 21mpg

saving £1100 in 15000

You should be able to get a conversion done for £1100 so payback will be in 15000miles or less.

Why not get a Corsa LPG and have a more fuel efficient car?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201114384143237
It looks a bit expensive but that's because it's a dealers price. It's a 2005 so should have cheaper tax band only a minor saving neither here nor there really. It is sold from new as LPG so no insurance hassles.

EDIT 15000 miles on the corsa lets say will be approximately £1257 @ 70p LPG 38mpg
SAVING an extra £1000 in your first 15K (and every 15K after that compared to the SCENIC!!!)

See here
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201108380235359/
This one is the petrol only model and hardly any cheaper otherwise very similar cars.

You might get £900 for the scenic if you're lucky, save £1100 on the conversion that's £2000 come up with another £1500 and buy yourself something nice already converted.

Yes you can get your own tank but you will need someone to deliver to you, and they won't deliver any cheaper than you can buy from your local indy (probably actually more expensive to deliver). so you will have about £2000 - £3000 on tank & pump installation costs then you pay more for the fuel on top of that. Unless you can get the installation done as a domestic fuel tank and hide your pump in a garage somewhere, and then you can buy the LPG in for no road fuel tax, then it would be cheaper but of course also illegal.

Wig

rag31 wrote: »

Sorry, writing reply so didn't see yours Hammyman - that's roughly what I worked out.

But I couldn't help wondering why it's so rare if it's such an obvious money saver iykwim! Thought I must have missed some glaringly obvious downside! Still haven't found it!

Because people are sheeple, they don't know what they're missing.

The only downsides are the problems which might occur when buying a new car already converted, in that buying a new car is always a journey into the unknown.

Or in having a conversion done finding someone who is good. There are a lot of cowboys out there and being LPGA registered is not any guarantee.

You should also ask your insurer what their requirements are, every insurer is different, ask your current one if there will be a premium hike and what (if anything) they will require from you, then ask around the main inurers for quotes and see what their requirements will be. Compare these quotes to online quotes for your current petrol only car.

Find your LPG prices here
http://www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php

rag31

Wig, you've convinced me! Going to look out for a new car instead of going for a conversion :j

Definitely worth it financially that's for sure!

Tucker

I converted my Citroen 3 and a half years ago. I estimated pay back at 15 months. In reality it was 2 years.

There are several reasons.
1. You will still use some petrol for approx the first mile until the engine gets warm, so that can be several times a day if cold starting.
2. There are ongoing extra costs, such as servicing the LPG system (you must still service the petrol side as normal).
3. LPG needs a good spark, so changing plugs twice a year was needed to keep it running sweet.
4. LPG does not produce the same MPG per litre as petrol (although it does in weight), so you will lose 10 to 20% of your petrol MPG

I would be careful buying a previously converted car. They tend to get put up for sale when problems kick in, so you could easily buy something with issues.

A 1999 Renault is not something I would personally convert due to its age. Hpwever it will not need Flashlube as its generally Ford and japanese cars that suffer with valve issues on LPG.

forgotmyname

Better option keep the car you have, Spend £100 and get it serviced 26-28mpg for a 1.6???

Buy some lighter shoes not lead ones. Every red light is not a grand prix start.