Renewing tenancy with no break clause?

Snorkerz

newshooz wrote: »

The LA will not give me the LL's details either, and before I go signing for another year, which I will if it's enforceable, it just seems I'm being given conflicting messages by the agents!!

Request the LLs details IN WRITING. The agency have to provide them within 21 days under section 1 of the 1985 Landlord and Tenant Act. If they fail to do so, it is a CRIMINAL offence - scale 4, which is a max of £2500 fine. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/1

Snorkerz

newshooz wrote: »

I've had a look in the forum and general consensus is to not acknowlege a new contract based on the periodic tenancy clause and instead let the LA know that I have no wish to move out at the end of this agreement, I agree to rent increase and leave it at that.

As the clause says, section 5 automatically gives you a periodic contract. This does give you flexibility, but it also gives the LL flexibility - is that okay with you? Having said that, the oft-quoted 2 months landlords notice in reality tends to be up to 5-6 months between service of notice and actual leaving day! http://tenancyanswers.ucoz.com/index/being_evicted/0-21

Eton_Rifle

I agree but there is a benefit in my case :

1) two properties I rent out are very old, very large and extremely cold and costly to heat in the winter. I do not want these properties empty over the winter period, especially since I do not live in the UK.

2) In my location, fixed terms are the norm and the rent for one of these properties pays my rent here - so I want as close a rental term match as possible

Luckily, both properties have, touch wood, been very desirable to tenants and usually go on the first day of viewings so I can afford to set some terms - the most recent one was even taken sight unseen, on only a couple of photographs last time.
However, I would absolutely reconsider if or when this demand falls or if my personal situation changed.

I do also rent out a third property and for this, I allow periodic tenancies because it's a normal 3 bed house, no different to any other house and it's no bother if it's empty as my sister lives in the same village so can look after it. I give the rent money to my sister anyway as we both consider the house to be hers (it's just legally in my name and I manage it) and neither she nor I are dependent on the income from it.

G_M

Eton Rifle's preferences as a landlord, and his reasons for them, are irrelevant to the OP's question.

OP, whatever the agents says you have several options.
1) Sign a new fixed term as requested, for 12 months, at new rent. Since there is no break clause you cannot leave for 12 months without reaching an agreement with the LL
2) Do/sign nothing. Your contract will automatically become periodic on the day after the fixed term expires, and then continue at the same rent till either you give one month or the LL gives you 2 months notice. You gain flexibility. But you lose security. The LL may be p*ssed off and give you 2 months notice. You would have to leave in 3 to 4 months. However the LL then has the expense of a void between tenants and the cost of finding a replacement.
3) Offer to move to a periodic tenancy (as 2 above) but at a higher rent. This perhaps makes the LL happy while giving you the flexibility. As princeofpounds says, the correct process for this is a S13 Notice.

Often it helps to discuss these options with the LL direct rather than the agent (who is influenced by thoughts of commission etc). The LL's address should be on your contract (though might be c/o the agent), however as Snorketz says, the agent HAS to give you the LL's address if you ask in writing for it.

G_M

*miaomiao* wrote: »

The LA and the LL cannot force you to end the contract until you signed a Section 21 notice when you accepted the contract. If you did, you should have references to it within your contract.

A S21 does not have to be signed, it just has to be served.

A S21 cannot be served at the same time as a tenancy is granted. It has to be after the tenancy is granted. The rationale for this is that it would be a legal contradiction for a landlord to simultaneously grant a tenancy AND give Notice to Quit! For this reason LLs are advised to serve a S21 the next day at the earliest (so it can be shown by the dates that S21 and contract were not simultaneous).

References to a S21 in the contract would invalidate the S21 for the reason above!

newshooz

Thanks G_M. The written request for LL has now been sent. The S13 notice sounds like the better option, so I'll see if I can get anywhere with that. Although after past issues, my requests to deal with the LL have been denied.

You know, if the agents weren't so dismissive and disrepectful, I know I wouldn't feel the need to question their motives, but like most agents, they only work in the LL's favour. Ok rant, over!

princeofpounds

they only work in the LL's favour

Correction: only work in their own favour. LLs can also be screwed by poor LAs.

"If on the coming to the end of the fixed term agreed above (ie next month), the Landlord does not seek possession and the Tenant remains in the property, they will be considered, by virtue of section 5 of the Housing Act 1988, to have a statutory periodic tenancy. This will continue till ended by either party."

This is law. It doesn't even need to be in the contract. So it doesn't mean it represent's a landlord's preferences.

By the way, a LL wanting the security of a year's income is not unusual.

newshooz

Hmm....letter was sent to LA requesting LL's details, email sent back to me stating they deal with property on LL's behalf and "is there an issue?". Shall I ignore it, and in 21 days write further, requesting details?

princeofpounds

Personally I would tell them exactly what the issue was - they might actually pass the message on then - but that it has no bearing on your request. Under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 they legally have to give you an address for the landlord. Unfortunately that address can be c/o the agent - it's only an address for service of notices - so it's not perfect.

Have you looked at the land registry entry for your property? Only costs £4 and should have the landlord's address in it.

tbs624

princeofpounds wrote: »

Personally I would tell them exactly what the issue was - they might actually pass the message on then - but that it has no bearing on your request. Under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 they legally have to give you an address for the landlord. Unfortunately that address can be c/o the agent - it's only an address for service of notices - so it's not perfect.

Don't confuse the respective requirements of the LL & T Act 1985 with the LL& T Act 1987, s48 and the requirement for an address at which notices may be received ( this may be any address within E/Wales).

LA has to comply with LL&T Act 1985 request within 21 days of receipt of the T's request or run the risk of a criminal law sanction.

The address *must* be LL's "place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office" (See s38 of LL&T A85) The LA's address is not the LL's "place of business" IMO.

However, as PoP says, the LR is a useful alternative source o the relevant info.