Sliding sash manufacturers which are decent?

spooky25

Hi All,

I am in the process of looking into getting replacement uvpc sash windows for my property (8 in total).

The problem I have is that I live in a flat which is 3 floors up and also in a conservation area, the associated cost of height/conservation area adds lots of £££ to my overall bill.

So I've decided to sway away from getting them installed and now to reduce costs looking for a supply only as will fit with builder mate of mine.

I've heard of quickslide but not sure how their windows rate amongst others on the market. Could anybody out there shed some light on which are good company's and those I need to avoid.

Does anybody know of KAT UK?/VEKA?/EUROFRAME? and what their quality of windows are like?

I'd be grateful for any information

Many Thanks

Spooky

MX5huggy

If you are in a conservation area are you allowed to install UPVC? and even if you are should you?

sashman

Conservation areas are generaly fine if you follow the rule, you can even ignore the advice of a planner in certain circumstances, unfortunately for you the you cannot ignore the planners because you live in a block of flats, so you must get permission.

Planners are often anti PVC, they dont like the material but cannot refuse permission on material grounds alone, so they find something not the same (mitres v butt joints) and say they are refusing on the appearance. see reviews on http://www.doubleglazingcompanies.com/back_office/home/reviews/

There are companies that pride themselves on products that planners find impossible to reject because they are really good but they will be far more expensive than Quickslide.

You ask about Kat UK, they make a variety of products from standard WHS Halo and LB Plastics extrusions (a systems company).
Veka are also a systems company, they have fabricators who make sash windows but not many. Not heard of euroframe.

I own a company called masterframe that specialise in sash windows (we only make sash windows nothing else) we offer windows to the trade and via a network of installers with a product that planners love, bygone.

Hope this helps
sashman

spooky25

MX5huggy wrote: »

If you are in a conservation area are you allowed to install UPVC? and even if you are should you?

Hi thanks for your reply. I have spoken to the appropriate people at the local council and I was told as long as I replace like for like then there would be no problem with upvc sliding sash's as long as they looked like the original sash's that are currently in my home.

A lot of people who live in the conservation area around me have installed uvpc instead of replacing them with wooden ones. this maninly is due to the location of where I live, which is right next to the sea as the windows are subject to the elements.

I understand that not everybody likes upvc sash's and would prefer to have double glazed wooden ones, but cost is a major factor in peoples choices. I would love to have new wooden box sash's but its just to much for me to afford at present and to be honest if you had plastic on one window and wood on the other it would be hard to tell the difference unless you were up pretty close to them.

sashman

Dont doubt what you say, however planning permission (consent) is required for a building that has multiple occupancy, is a commecial element, get it in writing from the LA.

Many planners are being won over using really authentic PVC sash windows, even up close planners dont believe ours are PVC!

Dont forget the regulations, new windows need to be 1.6 u value, or C rated WER, and you need to register the installation with LABC or Fensa (or other competent person scheme)

Cheap PVC sash are as little as £250 but the better quality ones anywhere between £450/550 plus VAT, but these are secured by design, energy efficient, wood foil, BBA tested and approved so they wont fall apart.
sashman

diable

uPVC sash windows?

I can hear the tears of Sashman hitting the floor............

sashman

I love sash, PVC or timber we offer both, its just saddening when people spend GOOD money hoping to beat the system, cutting out middlemen only to find they have issues down the line. Our products cost more but there are very good reasons why, its mainly about the quality of the components we put into every sash window we make.....

spooky25 wants wooden sash but cannot invest that amount right now (PVC may be cheaper, but at least they are staying with sash not casements pretending to be sash), looking to fit themselves (may have issues with fensa, council etc), manufacturers often dont give retail customers guarantees, and I would be totally confused about the TLA's (three letter acronynims) like WER's, BBA, BSI, SBD, GGF, DGCOS, thats why sites like this one are popular http://www.doubleglazingcompanies.com/knowledge/product-accreditations/?3

I dont mind my tears, so long as I can stop other people shedding tears because they paid the real price of buying too cheaply!

sashman

PasturesNew

I''d ask the following questions:
- is it OK with planning etc
- is it OK with the management company of your block of flats
- is your builder OK with the necessary authorisation/registration you'll be expected to provide when you try to sell your flat at some future date.

leveller2911

sashman wrote: »

Dont doubt what you say, however planning permission (consent) is required for a building that has multiple occupancy, is a commecial element, get it in writing from the LA.

Many planners are being won over using really authentic PVC sash windows, even up close planners dont believe ours are PVC!

Dont forget the regulations, new windows need to be 1.6 u value, or C rated WER, and you need to register the installation with LABC or Fensa (or other competent person scheme)

Cheap PVC sash are as little as £250 but the better quality ones anywhere between £450/550 plus VAT, but these are secured by design, energy efficient, wood foil, BBA tested and approved so they wont fall apart. PM me if you want a price

sashman

Touting for business sashman?, why not just post your phone number or website.........;)

planning_officer

sashman wrote: »

Conservation areas are generaly fine if you follow the rule, you can even ignore the advice of a planner in certain circumstances...

Eh? Yep, ignore at your peril - in serious cases, you'll just be made to rip them out and replace the original windows at your own expense! Moral: DON'T ignore planners advice.

sashman wrote: »

Planners are often anti PVC, they dont like the material but cannot refuse permission on material grounds alone, so they find something not the same (mitres v butt joints) and say they are refusing on the appearance.

Yes we can! If the material is inappropriate, it will get refused. Simple. I've seen many reasons for refusal based on materials. Not sure where you're getting this from!

sashman wrote: »

Dont doubt what you say, however planning permission (consent) is required for a building that has multiple occupancy, is a commecial element, get it in writing from the LA.

Nope... very confused! By multiple occupancy do you mean a 'House of Multiple Occupation' or a block of flats? Very different things in planning terms!

Let's start at the beginning - planning permission is required for anything that is 'development'. Anything that does not materially affect the external appearance of a building is not 'development', and does not therefore need planning permission. One can argue that replacing like-for-like windows does not materially affect the external appearance of a building and does not constitute development (irrespective of whether it's a house, block of flats, etc - it doesn't matter). If one is replacing windows with different types of windows, then arguably it will change the external appearance of the building and that can constitute development (Councils do vary in how strictly or leniently they interpret this). Again, it doesn't matter if it's a house, flat etc.

However, houses have permitted development rights - so any minor 'development' can benefit from permitted development rights and consequently not require a planning application (as it is automatically granted planning permission under the relevant permitted development legislation). Whilst replacing windows is normally not regarded as development at all, even if it was regarded as development, then for a house, it would probably be permitted development. However, flats have no permitted development rights and therefore if the windows were deemed to materially affect the external appearance of the building, they would need planning permission. It's also planning permission, not consent (strictly speaking). Listed Building Consent and Conservation Area Consent are different things again.
There. Simple. Kind of.

sashman

planning-officer,

You are so right, I am confused because every authority in this country has different opinions on how things should be interpreted so trying to give anyone advice is difficult and will always be met with opposite opinions.

Planning officers move around counties and the country, suddenly policies change for no other reason than x, has a different opinion to y, who just left the department, so homeowners are left confused!

We have been advised that someone living in a conservation area, in a "normal house" one that isn’t a block of flats, that isn’t multi occupancy just one family, that doesn’t have any commercial element, rented or business use, can chose to ignore a conservation officers preference or objection. I am not talking new build planning consent or grade I or II listed build consent, article 4 etc just conservation areas.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not a planning officer, I am not a practicing lawyer, I just have to help decent installers overcome “decrees” issued around the country by planners who are expressing their personal preferences or outdated policies.

I am passionate about sash windows and TOTALLY supportive of retaining character, street scene, appearances and I want to retain historic integrity of any "important" building for my children’s children etc but the world needs to wake up to the fact that we must conserve the energy we produce and use it far better in the future.

Our network of installers have dozens of article 4 cases where planning was overturned on appeal because the windows "improved the area", "were indistinguishable from the originals", that "blended with the surrounds" so well, that the council lost the case and ordinary people (long suffering homeowners that just want to enjoy energy efficient, secure windows) get the new sash windows they wanted, without anyone else noticing they have been changed!

All I am saying is there are circumstances where planners dislike and object to a material, that’s wrong (unless its is poisonous like lead pipes for drinking water). They are there to ensure the quality of a development, the character of an area, what they should object to is the style of opening and the design of the windows.

Then manufacturers have the chance to overcome the logical objections and produce something that is "indistinguishable" (not my words but the words of an inspector working for the ODPM) and that retains the character of the building and surrounding environment.

I my experience, people are afraid of planners, they are god like, must be obeyed, can never be wrong. No, they are human; they make decisions and interpret the same regulations the way they want to and often lose on appeal when challenged, wasting tax payers money defending outdated policies.

That’s why I suggested people get things in writing from the Local Authority but don’t take their advice as gospel, check it, work with reputable installers who have successfully challenged similar decisions with the same or neighbouring authorities. When challenged, their “advice/objection” for the vast majority of conservation areas, is often changed to “our preference is”…………….

The sooner planners work with manufacturers to say what is acceptable the better. Insist on good design, appropriate styles, unless a material is bad (in which case I will support a complete ban on it) it shouldn’t enter the discussion.

sashman