house purchase - finding out what probate valuation was

luusac

Hi,
I am renting and have asked the EA if the landlord will sell (knowing that the LL has just sold another property). I have put in offers for another property with EA that I didn't get. Funnily enough the answer has come back that the LL will sell for, co-incidentally enough, the same price as I offered on another house. The LL is an executor of an estate, so it may be that as part of the estate process they are selling off all of the properties in the estate, so I may get notice soon anyway and then I will have to move anyway. But my question is how can I find out what the probate valuation was (done a few months ago) of the house that I am renting, as I think the asking price is quite exaggerated.
thanks,
lu

CloudCuckooLand

You can't. Its confidential to the Estate.

But that doesn't matter, do your research on similar properties and counter-offer with a combination of the going rate and a figure you would be happy with...

luusac

thanks for your reply, but isn't it the case that when probate is applied for the will and associated documents (i.e in this case valuation) are lodged with the probate court and therefore become a matter of public record (and therefore obtainable by paying a fee to the probate court)? I have just checked this and the HM Courts and Tribunal Service website says that you can obtain copies of grants and wills etc, what I don't know is whether the figures will include a breakdown or whether there will be a summary for the whole estate (which included several properties). Can anybody clarify this?
lu

Thundercat_2

To be honest it won't make a difference to you because probate valuations aren't always very accurate anyway.

As far as I know it is common for the probate valuation to be deliberately low because potentially inheritance tax might have to be paid on whatever amount it is valued at. The surveyor will then value the property on the low side because it's better to pay inheritance tax at the low amount and then pay additional inheritance tax once the property is actually sold, if it sells at a higher price. Otherwise too much inheritance tax could be paid on a property which has been overvalued and it's then up to them to get it back from HMRC (which people don't want to have to do and who can blame them!?)

The people selling the property will therefore be aware that the probate valuation is deliberately erring on the side of caution and would be unlikely to sell for that price, even if you could find out what it was.

phoebe1989seb

We had an offer accepted on a probate property (we later withdrew from the purchase as we had second thoughts about the area) and after our offer was accepted the EA sent us a copy of the probate valuation - not sure if this was correct procedure - and it showed a valuation of £269,995. The property was marketed at £275,000 and they accepted our offer of £249,000.

luusac

sure, I understand that the probate valuation will be low - especially as the estate must have included several properties - they must have been above the IHT threshold. Lower valuation = less IHT. My point is that the EA are trying it on. I viewed another property that was bigger and generally in a much better condition recently. The offer was rejected but I know what the accepted offer was. Now the EA are trying to take the offer from that property and are in effect saying 'if you were willing to offer x for the other property then you are surely willing to offer the same amount for the property that you are renting but want to buy'. If I can find out the probate valuation, coupled with the fact that I know what the other offer that was accepted on the larger/better property was, then I will be in a better position to negotiate from, even if the property goes for significantly more than the probate valuation.
lu

Thundercat_2

I still don't think you'll be able to find out what the probate valuation was unless the vendors decided to disclose it, which is unlikely.

By finding out the information you described you will be no better off one way or another. Your offer for the property is your offer - if the vendor decides not to accept your offer then no amount of justification using probate valuations and/or accepted offers for other properties will change their minds.

My advice is to offer what you would be happy to pay and take it from there. It doesn't matter that the EA knows what you offered on another property, just stick to your guns and then it's up to the vendors to decide.

G_M

Just do what everybody else does!
Check sold prices for similar local properties.
Check what you can afford.
Factor in how much you personally value / want this oarticular property.
Reach a maximum price you're prepared to pay.

Offer low and increase to your maximum price, then stop!

flora48

I second what the PP has said. What the probate value was /is irrelevant to you, too many factors may be applied. What matters is the current value.

Errata

luusac wrote: »

thanks for your reply, but isn't it the case that when probate is applied for the will and associated documents (i.e in this case valuation) are lodged with the probate court and therefore become a matter of public record (and therefore obtainable by paying a fee to the probate court)? I have just checked this and the HM Courts and Tribunal Service website says that you can obtain copies of grants and wills etc, what I don't know is whether the figures will include a breakdown or whether there will be a summary for the whole estate (which included several properties). Can anybody clarify this?
lu

The will won't help you as it will probably say 'I leave the house to Fred, the bungalow to Freda' full stop. Nobody can write a will which indicates the value of a property that is being bequeathed; property is a fluid market and wills are generally written some considerable time before the testator kicks the bucket.

luusac

sure the will won't contain a price, by question really was whether the valuation would be lodged with the court together with the will when applying for probate. I take all of the points made about doing research, but there arn't many similar properties in the area on the market, and having the probate value would be something to mention in relation to the silly price the ea suggested.
lu