Attic not part of lease on flat??

staceyalison2114

I accepted an offer on my top floor flat in Jan, all going well and thought we were ready to exchange when I'm told the attic which I have access to from my flat (being at the top of course!) is not mine to use & not part of the lease. Well this is news to me, I was not told this when I brought it (& being 19 at the time never thought to ask) but it does not surprise me. My buyer is also fine with this.

The problem it's has been converted into a room by previous owners (or even owners before that I believe), when I say converted I mean its just been boarded up and has power up there. It's a great big space and we thought it was a great bonus to the flat. We never advertised it as another bedroom or anything and now my buyers solicitors have informed the mortgage company and they want them to inform the council (who owns the freehold) that they want it to be part the lease before they release funds. This is never going to happen!!! I'm so stressed out!! My agents who recommended the mortgage to my buyer (& solicitors grrrh) have complained to the mortgage company about this and they & my solicitor have told my buyers solicitors that it is not a loft conversion!!! I'd be happy to just put the attic back how it was at this rate.

I'm scared this is going to take ages and we will end up on losing the house we have made an offer on. Any got any advice or heard of this before?

Many thanks

Jenniefour

Can you give a bit more information about this please - as you describe it I just can't see the problem. What you're describing is not conversion by anybody's standards - it's just an attic that's been boarded over and power put up there, presumably for lights and maybe an odd plug. Loads of people do this to make it work better as a storage space. Had the previous owners installed a staircase by any chance? Directly from your flat up to the attic.

And what does it say in the lease about that space, if anything. It's not unknown for the access (drop down ladder and trap door) to an attic storage space to be in one flat and for another flat, or flats to have access, granted by the lease, to use it for storage as well.

zzzLazyDaisy

I think I know what the problem is.

OP's lease on the flat will state exactly what is included, which is normally something like the internal walls and ceiling and everything within this. I am paraphrasing from memory, as I once had a top floor flat and boarded out the attic, but I did it knowing that the attic was not 'mine' (although it could not be accessed by anyone, other than coming through my flat).

Other people with top floor flats had also boarded them out.

So when I sold it, I made sure there was no mention of the boarded attic, but when people came to view, I showed them it.

When it sold I told the surveyor that the lease only included the flat and he didn't even lift the trap and look in.

The problem, I think, is that this flat has been sold with the benefit of the attic storage, which may have increased the value - but which is not OP's property to sell. So the lender wants the attic including in the lease, as it has now formed part of the sale.

OP, you will need to speak to your solicitor, but I suspect that the answer is to remove the access ladder and make it clear that the attic does not form part of the sale and that this was a mistake. The lender may back out, the surveyor may have to re-value the flat, you may or may not lose the sale. If you do find yourself having to remarket the property you need to get the EA to remove all mention of the attic as it is not yours to sell.

The alternative is to approach the management company with a request to buy the attic space and have it included in the lease. Personally, I wouldn't bother - it will almost certainly involve you in lots of paperwork and red-tape, and probably more financial outlay than it is worth.

I hope this helps a bit, and you do have my sympathy.

Daisy

Jenniefour

Yes, Daisy, I think you may be right - the OP might not be supposed to use that space at all, it is simply space that belongs to the freeholder, in this case the local council - so there should be no access of any kind from the flat, and any such access should then be removed. I doubt very much whether anything would be added to value at all, in any event - attics are simply not habitable space and that's one of the factors in valuations. But I was wondering if previous owners had actually put in a staircase of some kind - which would be a problem. If that's the case it needs removing.

staceyalison2114

Thanks for your replies. There is no staircase just a pull down ladder! I am hoping the mortgage lenders will just accept it was a mistake of us and agents to mention the attic at all (like I said I was not aware the attic was not included in the lease) & as long as the buyer is aware that he can't use it (he is & is fine with it) & happy to proceed I don't see what the big deal is!

Out of the interest is there anything I can do 10 years on as to the fact that I was not informed of this when I brought it???

Thanks again

Jenniefour

I'm not sure if there is anything you should be able to do - the attic has been used on, shall we say, an informal basis by the residents of the flat. It won't have affected the price you bought at since it's not habitable space anyway. Solicitors can't check what they cant' see - they would normally send out the plan of the flat as is is delineated in the lease for the prospective buyer to check. Pity your buyer chose to tell their solicitor. Hope it works out OK. And that mortgage company/council now don't insist on removing electrics and removing hatch by plastering over it. If your buyer is happy then, if they wished, they might chose to reinstate the access to the storage space at a later time. As long as they know if they did that it would be at their own risk.

zzzLazyDaisy

staceyalison2114 wrote: »

Out of the interest is there anything I can do 10 years on as to the fact that I was not informed of this when I brought it???
Thanks again

You were informed - if you read the lease (this isn't a criticism, but it is a fact).

I would guess that when you bought the flat, the EA literature probably didn;t mention the attic, and it was probably not brought to the attention of your surveyor or the solicitor.

The mistake here is that your EA has put it in the particulars, and this has then been relied on by the surveyor and the lender. You are right, it doesn't matter between the buyer and you - but in law you are attempting to sell something that doesn't belong to you, so understandably the lender wants the situation regularising. It is unlikely that you will need to go as far a sealing the trapdoor up, because there needs to be a way of gaining access to the roof space for repairs, updating insulation (or even elimination of vermin!!).

So removing the loft ladder may be sufficient. But then the lender may want to re-value the property as it no longer has the benefit of use of the roof space.

Get onto your solicitor, it should be possible to sort this out.

Good luck

Daisy

staceyalison2114

Thanks again for your replies. When I brought the flat it was mentioned in the EA details and a surveyor did pick up on it so therefore the solicitor should have looked into this, that is what I was paying him for.

My solicitor (not the same one as before!) is dealing with it but I will get on the phone to him and agents today.

Thanks

de1amo

this sounds precisely the same as my previous flat--i 'took' over the roof space by just smartening it up and putting power up there--and a fold down ladder--your not in Bournemouth??

İt never was possible to legally use it and the floor structure was not sufficient to pass building regs because of the depth of the joists--it was impossible to convert it with out huge structural work from underneath!---the loft belongs to the freeholder in these circumstances and as it wasnt registered as being there by the council it woud be for the freeholder to declare it--not even as storage area--i doubt the lease gives permission for the lessee to access it either-its just a void that shouldnt be inhabited or used for anything!

if you use it the freeholder can just come in and seal it up at anytime--i got about 15 years use because the freeholder was unaware but a new freeholder came and took action!

Jenniefour

Not sure whether it makes a jot of difference to value - it is not habitable space, neither are properties normally measured by cubic footage.

OP - not sure your previous solicitor could or should have reasonably done anything since, as Daisy says, the boundaries of the flat will be clearly indicated in the lease. And I doubt whether you have lost anything at all - you have simply had the informal use of the attic for extra storage. It would only acquire value if the council sold it to you to convert properly into a bedroom or other habitable space, if planning permission would be granted and it were added to your lease - and that would be a costly (but possibly worthwhile) project.

Unwise of the EA to put it in the details - but they probably did that because you informed them it was yours - as you thought at the time. This might have made it attractive to those who wanted to convert it properly - many attics over flats have been used to do just that.

Hope it all goes well, OP, and your sale now goes through quickly.

westernpromise

Suppose the surveyor thought it was included, and valued the flat at £100k. It turns out it's not, so without it, the flat is worth £95k. Neither seller nor buyer cares, but the buyer's (eg) £79k mortgage offer was conditional on the loan being not more than 80% of the buying price. So the lender cares.

The result of removing the attic from the valuation would then be that the mortgage offer is invalidated.

The two ways to deal with this would be to get the attic demised to the flat by having it included in the lease...or to start again.

I guess something like the above may be what's happening.