Deprivation of capital & housing benefit.

jenny2009

I never understand why, when people on means tested benefits suddenly come into money, whether it is an award such as the OP, or even a lottery win or bingo win, suddenly look at ways to hide the money or spend the money, so that they can continue to claim their means tested benefits.

My friend, who is over 70 and was claiming everything she was entitled to, took great delight in contacting the benefit office and saying I don't need to claim benefits anymore as I won over £1,000,000 on the lottery.

She still gets her state pension though, as that is not means tested.

That still did not stop jealous people contacting the fraud helpline, but as she had stopped claiming it did not matter.

TOBRUK

mazza1985 wrote: »

....
Because housing benefit is means tested, they will take £20 a week out of your mums housing benefit, and she will become liable to pay this herself.

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!

Do NOT be tempted to spend the money quickly by means of getting rid of it so her benefit entitlement goes back quickly to how it was. Otherwise she could lose her housing benefit, as this counts as a type of FRAUD. However, is she has not decorated/carpeted the house for 20 years, needs a second hand car or mobility scooter etcThis would be the time to do it! Just be aware that the benefits agency may ask you to prove what you spent the money on!!!!

paulday, firstly she must declare any money she receives and give the reason why she has received it. You don't say how old your mother is, but if she needs a new car (not a too expensive one!) or needs or wants to buy a new sofa, bed, mattress, carpet etc. she would be allowed these things. Perhaps she needs some work done on the property.

She would need to tell them what she has spent or is intending to spend (keep invoices) and reasons why, she won't have any problems. If there is something she needs and is not sure whether they would allow it she can enquire - they will tell her if she can or not.

Surely she can enjoy some of this money to make things more comfortable for her? Yes they will cut her housing a bit but then when she gets under the threshold this will also change!

mazza1985 wrote: »

But if you lock into a trust unnessecarily they will still class it as capital deprivation. If your mum does not need appointeeship/poa then they will STILL count the capital and deduct off pension credit!
From the amount of compensation that has been issued its clear that your mum has not been injured enough to warrent a trust fund/appointeeship/poa.

Why don't you just spend some of it as suggested and accept the shortfall with benefits with the rest? Don't try and play the system because you will be shooting youself in the foot!

I agree, with the amount they will take off her housing benefit, is it really worth trying to find ways of getting round the system?!

33degrees

jenny2009 wrote: »

I never understand why, when people on means tested benefits suddenly come into money, whether it is an award such as the OP, or even a lottery win or bingo win, suddenly look at ways to hide the money or spend the money, so that they can continue to claim their means tested benefits.

My friend, who is over 70 and was claiming everything she was entitled to, took great delight in contacting the benefit office and saying I don't need to claim benefits anymore as I won over £1,000,000 on the lottery.

She still gets her state pension though, as that is not means tested.

That still did not stop jealous people contacting the fraud helpline, but as she had stopped claiming it did not matter.

I can understand why. The proverbial penny dropped with a great many people after the MPs expenses scandal that this country is governed by crooks. To the thread starter, as has been intimated already, don't be tempted to advise your mother to write a cheque to someone she trusts for an amount that takes her below the capital and savings thresholds for the benefits she receives. Not for any moral reasons but rather because Big Brother will very likely find out.

dealer_wins

33degrees wrote: »

I can understand why. The proverbial penny dropped with a great many people after the MPs expenses scandal that this country is governed by crooks. To the thread starter, as has been intimated already, don't be tempted to advise your mother to write a cheque to someone she trusts for an amount that takes her below the capital and savings thresholds for the benefits she receives. Not for any moral reasons but rather because Big Brother will very likely find out.

Shut up you tool

paulday

Shes 65 and was working as a cleaner before the accident. Her main injury was her right arm being smashed to pieces and that is now full of metal plates and screws meaning that she has been unable to return to work.

I knew i was going to be accused of attempting to play the system when i posted the message, but £20k for a pensioner who will now probably never be able to return to work is not a great deal of money, so if I can find a way to protect it for her for when she may need it in the future then i'm going to take it.

She would lose her housing benefit completely, meaning her rent for go from £25ish pounds a week to £102, and council tax benefit would also be lost, apart from the 25% single person discount. So her only income, her normal pension, would be used up in those 2 bills alone!

Paul

seven-day-weekend

She can use her capital and interest to pay her rent/CT until the capital gets below £16k and then she will be eligible again for some help, and when she gets below £6k, for full help. As others have suggested, there surely are essential items or repairs that she needs? It would only need a modest essential spend to get her below the threshold without defrauding the system.

A Dutch friend of mine was telling me that in Holland, to get means-tested Benefit, you are not allowed ANY savings, and I'm almost sure it is the same in Spain. So we are very lucky we have such a generous Benefits system in the UK.

KimYeovil

paulday wrote: »

I knew i was going to be accused of attempting to play the system when i posted the message, but £20k for a pensioner who will now probably never be able to return to work is not a great deal of money, so if I can find a way to protect it for her for when she may need it in the future then i'm going to take it.

She would lose her housing benefit completely, meaning her rent for go from £25ish pounds a week to £102, and council tax benefit would also be lost, apart from the 25% single person discount. So her only income, her normal pension, would be used up in those 2 bills alone!

Paul

This post confirms rather than allays the suspicions that would lead to accusations. What a bizarre post.

33degrees

paulday wrote: »

Shes 65 and was working as a cleaner before the accident. Her main injury was her right arm being smashed to pieces and that is now full of metal plates and screws meaning that she has been unable to return to work.

I knew i was going to be accused of attempting to play the system when i posted the message, but £20k for a pensioner who will now probably never be able to return to work is not a great deal of money, so if I can find a way to protect it for her for when she may need it in the future then i'm going to take it.

She would lose her housing benefit completely, meaning her rent for go from £25ish pounds a week to £102, and council tax benefit would also be lost, apart from the 25% single person discount. So her only income, her normal pension, would be used up in those 2 bills alone!

Paul

It's natural that you want what's best for her and her future finances and it must be galling that in effect she'll only receive less than £10,000 rather than £20,000 because, providing she lives long enough, the rest will disappear thanks to her losing some/all of her Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit.It seems that she'll be unable to work again and her circumstances won't change so once the lump sum is declared she'll remain on the local council's snoopers' radar forever. If, say, three years hence she completes and returns forms to claim those benefits and states she has capital and savings below the £10,000 threshold then without her knowledge or consent you can be assured that they will get their paws on her bank statements and pore over every significant transaction with a magnifying glass the size of a dustbin lid.The last paragraph of Post #4 is particularly useful advice. But best to seek permission first for, as an example, would it be acceptable for her to spend X amount on a new TV, fitted carpet, settee, holidays, etc, etc. Also discover what sums would be permissible for her to gift children and grandchildren at Christmas and birthdays. But remember, advise her to pay those by cheque or electronically instead of cash as there will be a record rather than just her word that she withdrew the money and didn't pocket it herself.Some inventive thinking is required. It'll be a pain mitigating the hit by playing this game as she's up against the state.

bigbill

jenny2009 wrote: »

I never understand why, when people on means tested benefits suddenly come into money, whether it is an award such as the OP, or even a lottery win or bingo win, suddenly look at ways to hide the money or spend the money, so that they can continue to claim their means tested benefits.

My friend, who is over 70 and was claiming everything she was entitled to, took great delight in contacting the benefit office and saying I don't need to claim benefits anymore as I won over £1,000,000 on the lottery.

She still gets her state pension though, as that is not means tested.

That still did not stop jealous people contacting the fraud helpline, but as she had stopped claiming it did not matter.

If they or the original poster have an assessed income period in their pension credit award, nothing not even the lottery win would have changed their pension credit / HB / CTB entitlements, worth checking first?

I think you will find that it only a discretionary trust that is ignored anyways, the cost of having this type of trust administered by others would far outway the gains very quickly.

sunnyone

bigbill wrote: »

I think you will find that it only a discretionary trust that is ignored anyways, the cost of having this type of trust administered by others would far outway the gains very quickly.

Yes no income on the lump sum, having to ask someone else if you can spend YOUR money and the charges make it a bad choice but people think that they are getting one over on the establishment.

In this case if the woman in question has had badly payed jobs a number of things may be needed in her home and so long as everything is well documented that should be fine and get the lump sum down to under £16k, she can then have a better quality of life using a little bit each week to suppliment he income and she can always apply for PC when she has under £10k which is the PG saving limit and over 65 she can get savings ctrdit too.