Know nothing about this "Apparent Debt"

tinkerbell212

Just like it is important for you to send correspondence recorded delivery, proof has to be given that you were informed in 2002. The only way would be if they have a signature from you accepting a letter informing you about the debt. Also, they have to provide you with ordernumbers and information what it is that you alledgedly bought. Otherwise they could just send out letters whenever they please, but that is not the way it works. The CAB could give you some real good info on this, or ring the debtline, but whatever you do, don't be bullied!!!
(Just a thought, but could it be that your ex made a purchase in your name??)

tinkerbell212

You might want to get a credit report just to make sure there are no other nasty surprises...

Chez1D

What an awful situation for you :mad:

have I got this right ?

A) You had a catalogue account, which you last used in 2000 paying it in full

You've since split with your (then) partner, moved and got married

C) A DCA is has now sent letters saying you owe money on it

D) When you called, they badgered you into making a payment with threats

E) The DCA is telling you that the 6 years statute is from account closed date & that now you've "made a payment" it's now in play again..


From what I've picked up from personal experience & also the information previous people have kindly posted - A few observations : Although I know it's not really down to you to prove - it's up to them to do so...

B & C) If you moved prior to the "so called" debt - then this could work in favour, as you would have proof that 1) you weren't at that address (2) Alas, this might point to either your ex using your old account - or an Identity Theft issue.

E) As others have said - the Statute is from last "written correspondence acknowledging the debt"

D & E) It might be worth checking - but to me this might come under the area of "obtaining money under threat" : So although you did initially pay it, you subsequently cancelled the payment after advice - even if they tried to use this to now obtain the "debt", you may be able to argue the point that it was made under duress / threat.

Maybe someone with some "law" knowledge would be able to confirm my thoughts on item (D&E)

Really feel for you, and wish you best of luck in sorting this

Chez

GettingThingsDone

Good luck in sorting this one out.

I had a letter from that DCA a few months back (OH went pale) for some internet service charge that I had no record of. I had a word with the internet service provider (who were downright rude) who couldn't provide any proof of invoice, and then I spoke to the DCA who put my account on 'hold' until they could find an invoice.

45 days later I received a 'PAY NOW OR ELSE' letter from the DCA - called them back, asked for the invoice details. They couldn't provide it so after a long and boring 'conversation' I eventually got the supervisor who 'closed the file' and got a written confirmation that the matter was closed.

Checked my credit reference lately and nothing on there.

Long-winded (who, me?) way of saying - stick in there!

prudryden

It really is too bad that this country doesn't seem to allow for counterclaiming for punitive damages. A lot of this bullying by DCA'S would stop.

rog2

prudryden wrote:

It really is too bad that this country doesn't seem to allow for counterclaiming for punitive damages. A lot of this bullying by DCA'S would stop.

Totally agree pru - DCA's use thes 'tactics' because they know that in 99% of cases they will get away with it. Not because there is no legislation in place to prevent it, but because they know that most of 'us' are unaware of our rights.
I am sure, however, that it WOULD be possible to claim against them, through the courts, and I intend to research this avenue over the next few weeks.

lowellsucks

Storm wrote:

Outraged on your behalf here! They have to prove the debt is yours, and they're just using bullying tactics here to try and scare you.

Make sure any correspondence with them is in writing, and you send things by recorded delivery. Have you got any old statements from Littlewoods showing the zero balance?

PLEASE STOP SAYING 'THEY CAN'T TAKE YOU TO COURT AFTER 6 YEARS...ETC...ETC'

They CAN! It simply means that it cannot be ENFORCED by the court. They can simply obtain an unenforceable judgement out of spite to stay on your file for 6 years hence.

They will also sometimes use a summons as a final gamble, to make you doubt your own defence and as a last brutal option to make you admit it and cut a deal with them, in response to the 'Limitation Reply' you can copy off of here. I think this is happening to me at present. I received (well my old address did) a series of crapola from Lowell, I know 100& this is well over 6 years old, I used the limitation reply from here, told them to take me to court, and they have done!

I have acknowledged the summons (issued 13/11/06) on the 27/11/06, stating I will defend the whole of it. I submitted my defence on 10/12/06.

The interesting bit is, that on the 15/11 I wrote to Lowell requesting the proof of ownership of this debt, and the statements of account etc. enclosing my £1. (Using the letter available from this site, still not acknowledging the debt)
They signed for my letter on 16th next day.
12 days passed, whereby they should have provided me with the details I requested. Nothing.
Today 30 days has passed, and I understand this is now a CRIMINAL matter, as they have not yet indicated they will withdraw the summons and are still willing thus to proceed without me being given my entitled information to aid my defence. I assume this is criminal under the 1974 CCA, as not doing this means they are attempting to gain financially via the courts in an unfair and perjurous manner.

I would love some more clarification on this area.
Cheers.

Kels

The thing is, they said because it was a purchase made under my account, an open account and that purchases could be made using the internet etc, then it's my fault for not cancelling the account, therefore cannot be classed as fraud.

She also told me that a last payment was made in March 2002??? I didn't make that payment, therefore a payment only made four years ago cannot be classed as statute barred. Load of tosh.

She just said that I need to prove it wasn't me, and I said how can I not prove it wasn't me? I can't, and told her they need to prove it was me, and she said it was my account and it was sent to my address, and because I can't prove I wasn't there now they can do about it!

Think I'm going to go to the CAB after christmas and get some further advice. My head is spinning

Nemisis_WOF

Hi Kels. How are you?

Well If the letter you recieved only states that the account was not defaulted until 2002 and it is therefore not statute barred, then you are still on a winner.

The six year rule acts like this, the clock starts when the accounts gets defaulted, ie since the last payment was missed and ticks on until you either acknowledge the debt in writting or make a payment towards it.

Now as these idiots have stated that the account only defaulted in September 2002 (have they sent you a statment of the account to prove it??) they technically are correct that it is not statute barred.

BUT this is not what you are going to use to defend yourself with. Even if it is not statute barred and they do send you something to prove this, they still can't touch you if they cannot provide the original signed agreement without which there is no legal way they can claim a penny off you.

If you have sent a letter asking for it and a statement of the account (which you have) and they still haven't sent you anything i would write them a recorded letter going something like this.


Dear Sir/Madam

With reference to the letter you sent to me dated **/**/**

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or your clients.
You allege in your letter that since the account was not defaulted until September 2002 that it is not statute barred.

This may or may not be the case, but as you are well aware i did send you a letter Dated **/**/** requesting a true copy of the alleged original agreement with signature and also a statement of the account, along with a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You have failed to send me any documentation relating to the alleged account so far and are in danger of breaking the law.

You must send me the requested documents by the 2nd of January 2007 or I will consider the matter of the alleged debt closed, any and all correspondence after this date that does not relate to the required documents will be considered harrasment and you will be reported to the relavent statutory authorities.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

That should get thier attention and if they do not get the documents required to you by that date, then consider the matter closed!

Kels when did you move out of the house that the account is registered with? and were you registered for council tax at that time and did you notify the council that you had moved, did you also inform the new council (if it was a new district you moved to) when you moved in to the new house?

The reason i ask is that the councils will have records of council tax invoices going back quite a long time. They can provide copies to you as proof of residency at your previous and new addresses, which can prove that you were not the one that ordered the items that defaulted in 2002.

Also if you had a bank account at those times ask the bank to print official statements for the month previous to your move (by official i mean not just the ones printed at your local branch but official copies from head office) and after and also for intermittent dates up until present this can also prove you moved as i would presume when you moved you changed your address with the bank or maybe opened a new one.

All of this is class A proof that you were not living at the house that the items were delivered to when they were ordered.

This is a secondary defense of course, but it's always good to have a back up and a couple of 5 minute calls to the council and bank can get that back up sent to you.

I had to do this to prove residency when applying for my mortgage they wanted stuff from up to 5 years back (I don't keep utility bills for that long:rolleyes:)proving i lived where i was and ended up doing the above to get the proof required.

Anyway long post i know but keep fighting and good luck.;)

Kels

Thanks you so much for this!
I will get the letter off to them asap.

As for the council tax thing, this is what happened.

I left my ex partner in October 2000, he wouldn't move out, so I stayed with my parents unofficially for a few months until he did, I then moved back into the house once he left, until the house was sold. Therefore I didn't have any proof that I was living with my parents because i was still officially, living at the house in which I owned. So can't prove nothing.

They also claim that because it was a catalogue, they cannot provide any proof that it was me that ordered it and therefore my own fault for not closing the account with Littlewoods and I'm therefore liable for any debt on that account.

Will try the alternative method of your letter and see what I get.

Thank you :T

Nemisis_WOF wrote:

Hi Kels. How are you?

Well If the letter you recieved only states that the account was not defaulted until 2002 and it is therefore not statute barred, then you are still on a winner.

The six year rule acts like this, the clock starts when the accounts gets defaulted, ie since the last payment was missed and ticks on until you either acknowledge the debt in writting or make a payment towards it.

Now as these idiots have stated that the account only defaulted in September 2002 (have they sent you a statment of the account to prove it??) they technically are correct that it is not statute barred.

BUT this is not what you are going to use to defend yourself with. Even if it is not statute barred and they do send you something to prove this, they still can't touch you if they cannot provide the original signed agreement without which there is no legal way they can claim a penny off you.

If you have sent a letter asking for it and a statement of the account (which you have) and they still haven't sent you anything i would write them a recorded letter going something like this.


Dear Sir/Madam

With reference to the letter you sent to me dated **/**/**

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or your clients.
You allege in your letter that since the account was not defaulted until September 2002 that it is not statute barred.

This may or may not be the case, but as you are well aware i did send you a letter Dated **/**/** requesting a true copy of the alleged original agreement with signature and also a statement of the account, along with a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You have failed to send me any documentation relating to the alleged account so far and are in danger of breaking the law.

You must send me the requested documents by the 2nd of January 2007 or I will consider the matter of the alleged debt closed, any and all correspondence after this date that does not relate to the required documents will be considered harrasment and you will be reported to the relavent statutory authorities.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

That should get thier attention and if they do not get the documents required to you by that date, then consider the matter closed!

Kels when did you move out of the house that the account is registered with? and were you registered for council tax at that time and did you notify the council that you had moved, did you also inform the new council (if it was a new district you moved to) when you moved in to the new house?

The reason i ask is that the councils will have records of council tax invoices going back quite a long time. They can provide copies to you as proof of residency at your previous and new addresses, which can prove that you were not the one that ordered the items that defaulted in 2002.

Also if you had a bank account at those times ask the bank to print official statements for the month previous to your move (by official i mean not just the ones printed at your local branch but official copies from head office) and after and also for intermittent dates up until present this can also prove you moved as i would presume when you moved you changed your address with the bank or maybe opened a new one.

All of this is class A proof that you were not living at the house that the items were delivered to when they were ordered.

This is a secondary defense of course, but it's always good to have a back up and a couple of 5 minute calls to the council and bank can get that back up sent to you.

I had to do this to prove residency when applying for my mortgage they wanted stuff from up to 5 years back (I don't keep utility bills for that long:rolleyes:)proving i lived where i was and ended up doing the above to get the proof required.

Anyway long post i know but keep fighting and good luck.;)