Dispute over plumbing charges (sorry so long)

C_Mababejive

Maybe he should just remove the work he has already done and call it squits...? Or even,,bank the cheque and remove the work he has already done !!!

Horace

I think there is a lesson to be learnt here, always provide a written quote and always get a purchase order that way everyone knows where they stand.

It is alright saying there is a verbal agreement but if there isnt anything in writing to confirm the agreement (I am not saying invoices) then it is down to hearsay and cannot be relied upon.

I know that if I was using the services of a plumber then I would expect a written quotation so I know what I am expected to pay, how long the job will take etc. etc. It makes me nervous when people agree something verbally and I guess I am the kind of person who makes a file note and will send a copy to the client to confirm what has been agreed.

theesel1994

Morricl wrote: »

"I consider your charge of £17.50 to be excessive at £35,000 per year for a basic 40 hour week. This is more than twice what I pay some men or earn myself. Two builders quoted me £15 per hour for tradesmen to whom they presumably pay £14 which I consider to be reasonable. The price of houses is falling so higher wages cannot be paid. There is a bad time coming for everyone. I enclose my cheque for £840 which I trust you will accept as above the local rate."

Does Mr C (senior) not realise that out of this reduced rate of £17.50 per hour your OH will likely have to pay foe the upkeep of his tools, vehicle, insurance and various other business expenses? He also in extremely unlikely to be "working" 40 hours every week 52 weeks of the year. There will be hours each week that are wasted chasing various things up.

As for not completing the work and implications that you are contractually obliged to do so.....it is them that have broken the verbal contract by not paying your OH. He should walk away. Accept the £140 lost. If they want they job completed by your OH then demand payment of this £140 and then because of their reluctance to pay the earleir invoice, a deposit to ensure they will pay the remainder. And if your OH does continue working GET THE PAYMENT DETAILS IN WRITING.

theesel1994

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Maybe he should just remove the work he has already done and call it squits...? Or even,,bank the cheque and remove the work he has already done !!!

Unfortunately, that's illegal.

toffe

some advice from a tradesman who runs his own plastering business.

it is advisable to always quote for a job in writing, one copy to the client one copy held on file.

if quoting an hourly/daily rate rather than a "job price" that rate should be stated in the quote.

most small businesses and tradesmen do not use formal construction contracts, however, if a formal written quote is submitted, clearly stating the rate chargable for the job and the client instructs you to commence work on the job quoted for this is usually suitable evidence that the rate was agreed and is therefore due and payable.

but my advice in this matter would be to bank the cheque, it is rightfully your OH'S and accepting it DOES NOT mean he is accepting the lower rate.
After banking the cheque contact him and explain that because full payment at the agreed rate has not been made and given that the client has stated an intention not to pay the agreed rate for any future work carried out on the property work has been suspended with immediate effect and will not recommence until the over due amount is paid in full.

alternatively you could change that statement to " because full payment at the agreed rate has not been made and given that the client has stated an intention not to pay the agreed rate for any future work carried out on the property work has been suspended with immediate effect and will not recommence. The remainder of the agreed balance for works completed remains due and payable and if required i will issue proceedings in the county court for payment if you do not settle within 7 days. if you don not want to carry on with the job, i wouldn't.

there is no contract, it was an ongoing daily/weekly paid agreement, the client broke the agreement and therefore can not seriously expect to have any right to enforce the completion of the works at the lower rate, but hey if the client wants to take his "i changed the rate because i feel it excessive for you to earn £35,000 a year" argument to court, let him, and have a laugh at the judge drop kick him out of court faster than his little legs carried him in.

i wonder if he'll employ a solicitor........and if he'll send him a letter dictating what he fels is reasonable for him to earn per year....lol

just tell him to down tools and get out before he gets completely ripped off. the client is an idiot who wants to rip him off.

Premier_2

Morricl wrote: »

My OH is a plumber. He has been plumber for Mr C for 5 years. Recently Mr C commissioned OH to do extensive work on adaptation of property and agreed price verbally beforehand. This was £150 per day @ £18.75 per hour. OH sent bill but he felt price was too steep so reduced it to £17.50 per hour. I have advised him to jobs for total cost but he and many of the customers prefer this hourly rate. So he sends a bill for £980 with breakdown of hours done so far - interim bill as large job.

He gets letter this morning from Mr C Senior (who turns out is paying not Mr C Jnr : "I consider your charge of £17.50 to be excessive at £35,000 per year for a basic 40 hour week. This is more than twice what I pay some men or earn myself. Two builders quoted me £15 per hour for tradesmen to whom they presumably pay £14 which I consider to be reasonable. The price of houses is falling so higher wages cannot be paid. There is a bad time coming for everyone. I enclose my cheque for £840 which I trust you will accept as above the local rate."

So he has decided to pay my OH £140 below the bill. The cheek is unbelievable. :eek:. OH says he does not want to go through Small Claims but will bank cheque and refuse to go back and finish job - in writing. Any comments gratefully received.

Lots of responses so far, some of which I would not agree with.
To avoid addressing each previous post, here is how I see things:

1. Contractual price was £18.75p.h/£150 per day.
(The difficulty here will be proving that contract if needed as it doesn't appear to be in writing)
2. Your OH as the supplier has given a discount to the contractual price. Now he charges £17.50ph - no buyer is going to argue with that kind gesture
3. It's not clear what, if any, agreement was made to stage payments - again this should be part of a written contract to avoid these type of disputes.
However the buyer does not appear to be disputing this exists as they have offered payment against the staged payment invoice. The dispute appears not about the hours worked, nor the quality of the work carried out, but the fundamental hourly rate. If any form of contract exists (as it was verbal, it would be difficult to prove) then that is the part that is clear
So the buyer has not paid the full amount of the staged payment invoiced.
4. As a result your OH must now decide on what to do.
He can certainly take the money and refuse to continue further. Essentially the buyer is in breach of contract for failing to pay the required amount on time (assuming such time to pay was also agreed up front - again this should all be in a written contract)
For those that suggest no contract exists because it was verbal, well it does exist, but the evidence of such a contract would be hard to prove as it was only verbal. To the other extent, if there is no agreement to any contract, then your OH is not obligated to provide anything

What should be remembered though is if your OH upsets the client, the client is unlikely to come back with more business; something he may wish to think about since the client has been providing business for 5 years so far
But no one wants a client that doesn't pay.

The answer to this is all about a negotiated settlement ... and the ball is firmly in your OH's court at present; just make sure he thinks carefully which is the best way to return the ball

Definitely bank the £140 already provided. It means nothing other than (a) the buyer agrees a contract exists and (b) it is a part payment against the staged payment your OH invoiced for; banking the money mitgates his losses at this time.

coupleuk

because full payment at the agreed rate has not been made and given that the client has stated an intention not to pay the agreed rate for any future work carried out on the property work has been suspended with immediate effect and will not recommence. The remainder of the agreed balance for works completed remains due and payable and if required i will issue proceedings in the county court for payment if you do not settle within 7 days.

I would go with the above quote too.

I know you're OH doesn't want to go to the Small Claims Court but I've now taken two people thru the system - and my original claim was for £25 each (though there was an ongoing requirement for them to pay for 100+ years so it was important to enforce from the beginning and not to let these people crap on you.).

Yes, its a bit time consuming going to the SCC but very rewarding when things go in your favour and what would have been a £25 bill for the person has risen to £500 after all the court associated costs are added. Hopefully, it will make these people think twice before crapping on someone else in the future.

Premier_2

Just to reiterate the OP

Morricl wrote: »

... OH says he does not want to go through Small Claims ...

Morricl wrote: »

.... OH dislikes confrontation or hassle and does not want to go to court. ...

Morricl wrote: »

... - he's not bothered about the £140. ...

baldelectrician

I would bank the cheque, and put it down to experience

I am not as busy as I was, but still ticking over. I have went through each line of my business expenses and made cuts accordingly

I am now in a postion where I get most of my work via word of mouth and repeat business. I have told 3 (new) clients to seek other electricans in the past 2 years.
Not a lot in the scheme of things, but you get a feeling (as your OH said). Sometimes it is better to walk away as it's not worth the hassle

My mate is doing a job for a couple who are 'known' for being awkward. The builder and the plasterer have walked off site and called it quits- giving an invoice for work to date and suggesting they source other tradespeople
He has done 90% of the work and only got 25% of the money - despite agreeing staged payments which they have ignored

I would have made myself scarce until they came up with funds

theesel1994

Just don't do this
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/tayside/245701-disgruntled-painter-and-decorator-slits-customers-throat-over-unpaid-bill/