Fat Tax

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

you're an enigma, ninky. I can't work out how someone who can post a sensible and erudite post like this, can follow it up with a ludicrous cliche like 'there is no free will' just a few posts later.

An enigma, I tells you.

"there's no free will" is not a ludicrous cliche. it's the logical conclusion of thinking about reality.

the brain is no different from anything else in the universe in that it is governed by the laws of physics ergo its actions are detemined by preceding events (VERY simplistically genetic content and external interactions).

the experience of free will is an illusion similar to the experience of 'god'. merely a genetic confidence trick. however unlike the experience of religion, the experience of free will is impossible to give up (even after we have given up the belief in it).

what leads you to believe free will exists?

ninky_2

wotsthat wrote: »

Scientifically or philosophically? They aren't the same thing.

Also you might be confusing fault with responsibility. Again not the same thing.

The science is based on simple energy out vs. energy in calculations.

i'm not confusing anything with anything.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

what leads you to believe free will exists?

Simple. Because I can do whatever I want to in my life. Yes, there maybe some things I choose to do which might have unfortunate consequences (social outcast, harm to others, death to myself, penury, prison or even obesity) but at the end of the day and within the remit of the physical possibilities (ie, i can't fly or disappear into thin ear), my actions are completely within my remit.

To argue otherwise is to label people brainless sheep. That's fine - and very convenient - for you socialists and liberals who pretend to care and respect people, but really have such low opinions of those you profess to champion, but as a conservative thinker I tend to have a higher view of mankind and its potential and (sadly) its shortcomings.

bendix

PS. Fat people are still fat because they eat too much.

ILW

ninky wrote: »

"there's no free will" is not a ludicrous cliche. it's the logical conclusion of thinking about reality.

the brain is no different from anything else in the universe in that it is governed by the laws of physics ergo its actions are detemined by preceding events (VERY simplistically genetic content and external interactions).

the experience of free will is an illusion similar to the experience of 'god'. merely a genetic confidence trick. however unlike the experience of religion, the experience of free will is impossible to give up (even after we have given up the belief in it).

what leads you to believe free will exists?

As said my many esteemed Nobel prize winners, "cobblers".

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

Simple. Because I can do whatever I want to in my life. Yes, there maybe some things I choose to do which might have unfortunate consequences (social outcast, harm to others, death to myself, penury, prison or even obesity) but at the end of the day and within the remit of the physical possibilities (ie, i can't fly or disappear into thin ear), my actions are completely within my remit.

To argue otherwise is to label people brainless sheep. That's fine - and very convenient - for you socialists and liberals who pretend to care and respect people, but really have such low opinions of those you profess to champion, but as a conservative thinker I tend to have a higher view of mankind and its potential and (sadly) its shortcomings.

sorry but you aren't thinking straight (not that that is your fault ). it's not so much that you can do what you want but that you are obliged to do what you want. you could change what you want but in order to do that you would have to want to do that in the first place.

how do you even formulate your thoughts? through language. language only exists due to a series of interactions between organisms that has developed over time. external factors that influence the very way you structure your thinking.

what went into creating bendix?...a series of prior events that created the phenomena now commonly known as bendix (in some circles).

a brainless sheep would be pretty useless. it wouldn't move much. humans clearly are not brainless. but seperating the mind from the brain is a bit like believing in horoscopes.

rather than mindless automatons i prefer to look at it a little more like a radio controlled car. for the car to move (have thoughts, behaviours etc) it required internal mechanisms (the genetic building blocks that have gone to create us) but it also need external signals (the environment and preceding events etc). what else are you suggesting a human can possibly consist of other than genetics and environment?

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

PS. Fat people are still fat because they eat too much.

no argument from me there.

ILW

So are you saying that it is impossible for a fatty to walk past a cake shop?

lostinrates

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

My darling OH was sent to various quacks when he got back from his gap year in India, because he'd got very skinny and was having trouble putting on weight again.

He was told that his normal calorific requirements were in the region of 5-6,000 a day, more when he's doing lots of exercise. He simply burns a lot of energy.

I absolutely believe most people are fat because input is greater than output. I have a triple whammy of hypothalymus being impacted by my brain problems, hypothyroidism and PCOS (the later IMO is over hyped as a weight gain influence, but not totally imagined). I was very slim before I was ill (when I would also have had PCOS), and ate very little and was v. active. I am no very unslim . I have to watch my intake like a bloody hawk to try and rein in expansion.

The pills I was on last year were marvellous. My intake and output was monitored and it was concluded: yep the system is broken.

The answer is the same: you still have to do more than you eat to lose and roughly equal to maintain. The problem becomes when you can't eat the requirement of min/vit you need. I do not balance this v. well ATM...possibly why this year has been the winter of 8 colds/flus. And not have physical capabilty to increase what you do.

There is no doubt I feel the impact of medical ''things'' is smaller than many would like. (that said, I'm told by the endocrinologist that the range considered normal for thyroid function is wider here than in many third world countries)

ninky_2

ILW wrote: »

So are you saying that it is impossible for a fatty to walk past a cake shop?

no i'm not saying that. i am saying that whether or not the fatty walks past the cake shop or goes in and eats all the pies is governed by a "will" (genetics / environmental interaction) that the person is not able to choose.

that is not to say the outcome cannot be influenced. you might very persuasively convince said fatty not to go into the cake shop when otherwise they might have done. however the consequence of that exchange still boil down to the reality of your genetics / environment compounding to interact with their genetics / environment.