Advice on getting into IT after redundincy

magyar

Oh please! Yes, of course, everyone actually thought he was asking people to sign up for an undertaking course.....

Of course he was taking the !!!!. Which doesn't make it in the slightest bit less racist a phrase. If this had been carefully placed sarcasm then it would have been wrong, but we might have all laughed at the subjects of his biting wit....

But it wasn't even funny.

Nenen

DjSatansfury wrote:

Oh christ, get off your high horse, he was taking the pish. And was making quite a valid point in some parts of the country.

Well, I'd rather be up on a high horse than down in the gutter of ignorance and prejudice! Make your mind up... was he taking the *** or making a valid point? If you think that saying nobody would ever want someone who is not of their own race touching their relatives is a valid point (however tongue in cheek it was supposed to be) then you are as racist as he is!

DjSatansfury

Nenen wrote:

Well, I'd rather be up on a high horse than down in the gutter of ignorance and prejudice! Make your mind up... was he taking the *** or making a valid point?

Er... both?

Nenen wrote:

If you think that saying nobody would ever want someone who is not of their own race touching their relatives is a valid point (however tongue in cheek it was supposed to be) then you are as racist as he is!

Yes, yes i am. I am a racist. I am a racist, you assume, without a single shred of proof. :T :rolleyes:

And yes, that is exactly what im saying, or as such, agreeing with. Observing other peoples actions and thoughts on the matter, from personal experience, is obviously racist Its people like you who bandy about the "racist" tag who make ME sick.

magyar

"Bandy about the 'racist' tag"? What cr*p.

The OP (who has completely, if unintentionally, hijacked this thread!) was not 'making an observation of other people's actions' - or if he was he didn't make it slightly clear - he made a series of crass, pointless and not very funny statements.

You have tried to defend his racist statments. OK so if you tried to defend a murderer that doesn't mean you have killed anyone, but would you expect to get much sympathy from most people in that case?

poacheruk

Forget it.

As someone said, the bottom levels of it - which is front line support, a glorified call centre job, pays minimum wage, and you are disposable meat.

To get a decent job in IT (And I know, ive been there done and got out - I was an IT Projects Manager for 15 years) is to get at least a 2/2 degree in computer science and start as a Junior Programmer of some sort of support or installations role, or trainee Analyst.

You are competing with 20 years old with degree in IT who will work 60 hours a week for peanuts to climb the greasy pole. At 30, if your not a middle manager, your doomed. AT 40, if you havent got 10 years experience in IT, and a degree, you wont get in no matter what. AT 50 they will throw you out - almost no one in IT is over 50.

Unless you start on this carer path when you are 18, and with a good degree or HND, and you have stunning qualifications and drive, your simply switching a boring factory job for a boring call centre job.

The Golden Age of IT was 1980 - 2000. It isn't the pot of gold it was, and never will be again. Twenty years ago the Nerd ruled, the kid with no social life but could reboot a server by writing to bootstrap code in binary directly in the MBR with a hex editor. Those days have gone. The technical skills need are now fewer, concentrated in a small group of people and harder to acquire, and they are the only jobs that pay well. Other than that, IT is no better than factory work, or the lowest paid office junior jobs. There is little technical skill in those jobs and that is reflected in the pay.

Go do something rare - cooper, thatcher, one of those dying out skills. That's where the money is. I'm training to be a Tree Surgeon. All IT gets you is an ulcer.

amcluesent

Oops, I forgot that in Britain now any mention of colour issues will reflexively be shouted down as 'racism'.

Remind me where I said that one race was inherently superior to another due to biological differences and that whites are superior?

The races are living separate, parallel lives in the UK - check recent concerns from Trevor Phillips over white-flight.

At whatever rate integration proceeds, I would submit that the very, very last area where taboos will be broken down will be in the undertakers. And I would argue that there will never be white undertakers catering to ethnic groups in the UK who will always keep the profession 'in-house'.

magyar

Now who's on their high horse? You were the one who brought race into this discussion, you were the one who used the word racist.

You have a perfectly valid point about the lack of integration and of course racial issues exist on both sides. But that's not how you made the point above. You singled out "illegals", "people of colour" etc. if you use the language of the racist, be prepared to be heard as one.

And what a crass thing to talk about "you can't say anything about colour issues"? This was offensive racism, not a meaningful discussion about colour issues.

olly300

poacheruk wrote:

Forget it.

As someone said, the bottom levels of it - which is front line support, a glorified call centre job, pays minimum wage, and you are disposable meat.


You are competing with 20 years old with degree in IT who will work 60 hours a week for peanuts to climb the greasy pole. At 30, if your not a middle manager, your doomed. AT 40, if you havent got 10 years experience in IT, and a degree, you wont get in no matter what. AT 50 they will throw you out - almost no one in IT is over 50.

You are right about the competition but not true about the description as it depends who you work for and how you work.

However once you reach 35 you have to decide where you going and be on the road to get there i.e. whether you are going to go middle managementor the contractor route. Otherwise when you are 50 you will be unemployable as all IT companies seem to go bust, merge or get rid of their most expensive employees (the older ones) at some point, and even if you reskill in the same company they will get rid of you.

Lots of companies need legacy skills which is why lots of technical people over 45 get work.

Also you need to learn how to deal with recruitment consultants whether you looking for a job or working for a company. These constant b*********s will harrass you everyday trying to get themselves a new lead.

Plus you may need to be mobile to get your first job. This means being able to work anywhere in the country for 18 months to get experience.

poacheruk wrote:

Unless you start on this carer path when you are 18, and with a good degree or HND, and you have stunning qualifications and drive, your simply switching a boring factory job for a boring call centre job.

Not strictly true. Myself and others I know where/are older when we started out. Some the same age as the OP and older. However we are all degree qualified in a related subject, and in some cases hold multiple degrees. Having gone into IT after first being in other careers.

You need to have drive, determination and know what you want to do. It's no good saying I'm not sure what you want to study as you get nowhere. You need to be able to find out things for yourself.

There is stuff on the net normally aimed a graduates and school leavers giving ideas of what careers you can do in IT. There are other forums and message boards which are UK based where you can find out what skills are good to learn. Just use google.

poacheruk wrote:

The Golden Age of IT was 1980 - 2000. It isn't the pot of gold it was, and never will be again. Twenty years ago the Nerd ruled, the kid with no social life but could reboot a server by writing to bootstrap code in binary directly in the MBR with a hex editor. Those days have gone. The technical skills need are now fewer, concentrated in a small group of people and harder to acquire, and they are the only jobs that pay well. Other than that, IT is no better than factory work, or the lowest paid office junior jobs. There is little technical skill in those jobs and that is reflected in the pay.

Go do something rare - cooper, thatcher, one of those dying out skills. That's where the money is. I'm training to be a Tree Surgeon. All IT gets you is an ulcer.

Yep you are right on this one. IT jobs in the UK tend to either be very stressful, or if they are not they are far from where you live so you have a long journey to work. Rarely you will get a job where the management doesn't try and kill you, and it's near your home.

cybershot_2

CAN we please keep to the original post instead of petty issues,

this is a persons long time futre after all

peter999

olly300 wrote:

However once you reach 35 you have to decide where you going and be on the road to get there i.e. whether you are going to go middle managementor the contractor route. Otherwise when you are 50 you will be unemployable as all IT companies seem to go bust, merge or get rid of their most expensive employees (the older ones) at some point, and even if you reskill in the same company they will get rid of you.

Lots of companies need legacy skills which is why lots of technical people over 45 get work.

Also you need to learn how to deal with recruitment consultants whether you looking for a job or working for a company. These constant b*********s will harrass you everyday trying to get themselves a new lead.

Can I ask how old you are ??

Between ages of 35 & 50 is a lifetime in the IT industry.
If you think you can control your career between these ages if you have to change job, you're mistaken.
You will start having problems getting jobs when you're 40+.

Obviously it always depends on your Skills/Experience, but things start to slip away & out of your control, as other issues such as:
-hidden ageism
-companies recruiting younger/keener/cheaper employees.

peter999