Dispute with ex-flatmate over gas and electricity bill- advice needed

lwwatson

Hi,

I am currently in a dispute with my ex-flatmate over our gas and electricity bill and was wondering if there is anyone that would be able to help me out. I'll try to explain as best I can and hopefully someone can help me understand my position

I've just moved out a flat which I've been staying in for four months, and my flatmate has informed me there are outstanding gas and electricity bills to pay. There was a monthly direct debit set up for £60 a month (between 3 people) and the last two months I contributed £40 extra each month as I was made aware the bill was likely to be higher due to winter etc. Now that I have left the flat, she has taken final readings and informed me I still owe £150 to close off the account. By my reckoning, this would mean I'd have paid £310 for gas and electricity over a 4 month period, which means the overall bill for this time would be around £930, which seems excessive for a flat, even through the cold weather.

I met up with her yesterday and she brought a bill, which I wasn't clear about how to read it, and she wouldn't allow me to copy it so I took some notes of the figures to try and work things out.

She gave me these figures first of all, which are the amounts for certain periods

13/11-31/1- £490.56
1/2-8/2- £25.93
8/2-24/2- £57.63
22/2-31/3- £92.47

which totals £666.59 for this period (it should be noted I didn't move in until the end of November). I'm pretty sure these are meter readings for these periods. She says that these figures do not include the direct debit payments and this is one point where I'm unclear. Surely a meter reading would show the overall usage and would not automatically deduct the direct debit amount, or would it?

The second set of figures I took from the bill were a list of payments made to the account which were:

7th March- £180
1st April- £177.33
1st April- £249.26

I believe these were the payments made to close off the account. Am I right in saying that these payments could be covering outstanding amounts from before I moved in, and thus should not be used as proof?

I'm in a complete muddle over it all as it's the first flat I've rented and I am getting the impression she is trying to do me out of money, I'm just wondering if anyone could clarify things for me, or inform me of what I need to see to work out the exact figure I owe. The company is Scottish Power if that's any help as well.

Thanks for reading, Luke

KimYeovil

It is usual to base the contributions on meter reads. What instalments are paid to the supplier are irrelevant. Take the reads from when you arrived* and when you left and work out what is owed.

If an up-to-date final amount was not demanded from the tenant you replaced then that is bad luck for any overlapping housemates.

But you need more information about the quoted sums - if they are from meter reads on the bills then they will have direct debits deducted (but might be a different total from ones you have contributed to). If they are her calculations from the meters then they won't.

£930 is expensive for a flat but as you have four or more times the heating spaces it is possible.

*Well, it may not be from when you arrived. It depends on the arrangement if you or your predecessor or neither are responsible for any vacant weeks.

lwwatson

KimYeovil wrote: »

It is usual to base the contributions on meter reads. What instalments are paid to the supplier are irrelevant. Take the reads from when you arrived* and when you left and work out what is owed.

If an up-to-date final amount was not demanded from the tenant you replaced then that is bad luck for any overlapping housemates.

But you need more information about the quoted sums - if they are from meter reads on the bills then they will have direct debits deducted (but might be a different total from ones you have contributed to). If they are her calculations from the meters then they won't.

£930 is expensive for a flat but as you have four or more times the heating spaces it is possible.

*Well, it may not be from when you arrived. It depends on the arrangement if you or your predecessor or neither are responsible for any vacant weeks.

They aren't from the bills, I believe they are readings from the actual meter but I should have confirmed this. I will need to meet her again next week so I can clarify this then. If it is the case that these are actual meter readings, am I correct in saying the total of these figures is the figure that should be split three ways to get the final amount? Thanks for your help

grahamc2003

Ask her for all the information she holds, and her calculations. It's perfectly fair for someone asking you to pay a bill justifies the bill to you as she may have made a genuine mistake.

To work out your 1/3rd of the total amount, you ideally need the following

- gas meter readings on tha day you moved in and the day you moved out
- electricity meter readings on thre day you moved in and out
- the price per unit of gas
- the price per unit of electricty (the prices may be 'tiered', i.e. a certain amount for the first x units per month (e.g. 23p for the first 220 units), followed by another amount for the rest (e.g. 10p).

If you don't have the readings, then you have to agree an estimate of the readings at those times. (Get the bills, get the dates of actual readings, and estimate from those. Ignore estimated readings (those with an 'e' after them on the bill) which could be way out.

Post that info here and I'm sure someone will work out your bill, or check your calculations if you want.

The bill she's given you does look large, but not impossible if you all used a lot of heating for example. On two occasions when I've shared a flat, there's been someone who thinks it's a good idea to leave an electric fire on in their room while they were out all day at lectures, so it was cosy when they returned. Things like that will give you large bills.

It's quite possible that even with good intentions, the person calculating your share of the bill has made a mistake.

lwwatson

Thanks for your help, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a meter reading from when I moved in (maybe from the 13th Nov) but she did have one when I left, I'll need to get the information and work it out, thanks for your help

DVardysShadow

lwwatson wrote: »

Hi,

I am currently in a dispute with my ex-flatmate over our gas and electricity bill and was wondering if there is anyone that would be able to help me out. ....
I met up with her yesterday and she brought a bill, which I wasn't clear about how to read it, and she wouldn't allow me to copy it so I took some notes of the figures to try and work things out. ...

Write to her and ask for a copy of all bills for your period of residence. Keep a copy of your letter. Basically, she is out of order or on a power trip if she is not letting you have a copy.

Personally, I would not pay her anything until the bills were produced. If she took you to court over this [which she could], then you could insist on being given a copy of all bills

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Ask her for all the information she holds, and her calculations. It's perfectly fair for someone asking you to pay a bill justifies the bill to you as she may have made a genuine mistake.

Agree 100%

lwwatson

Thanks for your help. The problem is that she is withholding my deposit until the gas and electricity is sorted out, so basically she has my money. I have written an email to her now asking for copies of the bills as I need the information to work out how much I owe. If she refuses this, what action can I take? And is she within her rights to withhold a deposit based on bills?

DVardysShadow

So do you expect money back? Write a letter to her as I suggested, asking for a final account and a copy of bills and threaten to take her to the small claims court if she does not return your money and justify all deductions with actual bills. And carry through to sue her for the full deposit if she does not justify with bills. Give her 21 days to comply.

lwwatson

Thanks for your help, I do expect my money back yes. I have no problem paying what I owe for gas and electricity but without being provided with accurate bills/information, it is impossible to work it out and I can't blindly trust the figure she has given me. I've emailed her today asking for copies of the bills and if she refuses I will have to consider further action

lwwatson

OK I emailed her the other day and received a response earlier today, and have just replied. I think my next step is to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau tomorrow, and see where to take it from there

Me wrote:

Hey,

I've looked over the figures from the gas and electricity bill and got a couple of others to look over it and they have both agreed that there is not enough information to work out how much I owe for gas and electricity for the duration of my stay. In order to do this, I'd need to receive copies of statements going back to just before I moved into the flat, particularly of the second page that shows the exact usage, as the amounts that have been paid over the period are not a clear indicator of the usage. If you are uncomfortable with me having your details, then it doesn't bother me if you wish to blank out any personal details that are on the bills, but I do need copies of them. I spoke to Scottish Power on the phone, and they have advised that they are able to provide copy statements going back this period. Until I am able to view these bills, it's not possible to settle the issue as I don't have enough information at present given the bill shown is only for the last 1/2 months. It is only reasonable that if I am to pay a large figure to settle any outstanding debt related to the gas and electricity bills, that I have full and accurate information at my disposal.

In terms of meter readings, you obviously took one's at the beginning of April once we'd all moved out, and they would be helpful, as would the figures from a meter reading as close as possible to when I moved in, either before or after the exact date, if this is possible,

Luke

Kim wrote:

Luke,

I am slightly confused. I have given you all relevant information from the gas/electricity readings/payments dated:
13/11/10 to 31/3/11 there is nothing else to give you. I really do not understand how you, your mother or father cannot see from the information given that you are due "X" amount (i am at work and cannot remember the exact figure that I had worked out). The complete breakdown of costings is there in black and white from the 13/11 - 31/11.

Scottish power will not have given out details/information to anyone other than the account holder - myself. This is merely dragging the whole situation on. I showed you the details that I have access to during our meeting.

There really is no further information that you will get other than what you already have at your disposal. You do not need actual readings - the bill which was shown to you stated that an actual reading was taken and the final closing balance.

This needs to be settled by the end of this week as I have other more important matters to deal with regarding my new flat.

Kim

Luke wrote:

Kim,

The bill you showed me only showed payments made during March and April, and did not include costing information going back as far as the period when I moved in. The amounts paid are not relevant to how much I owe, it is the figures relating to usage during my period in the flat, which can only be viewed if I see bills covering the time I stayed. All I have to go on is various payments that have been made in March and April and a selection of figures that you gave me that may or may not be relevant.

Obviously Scottish Power would not give me account information,- that isn’t why I contacted them. It was merely to find out if they can provide bills going back the period I require, which they can, but obviously this has to be done through yourself. It is perfectly reasonable that I should expect to be provided with copies of the bills in order that I can look over them and work out how much I owe over my time in the flat. It isn’t acceptable that I have to go on one bill that only covers a small period, and a list of figures that have been given to me that as I say,may or may not be relevant.

I would like to resolve this as soon as possible also but as I stated in the last message, until I receive copies of the bills it is not possible to do so

Luke

Is there anything else I should take from this at this point? She says she wants to resolve it as soon as possible but she's not being very open if she wishes to do so. Thanks for reading

DVardysShadow

Time to get a bit tough

Dear Kim,

You owe me £x returned deposit - about which there is no dispute, as I accept that I owe you an as yet unverified amount for utilities. While I am prepared to accept that there is money owing, I am only prepared to agree the amount based on proper copies of bills covering my residence at <address>. So far, although you have told me the costs {verbally, in correspondence}, you have refused to provide copies of the bills for the period <start> to <finish>.

You should understand that this is unacceptable to me. If you are not prepared to give me proper sight of the bills, then I am minded that rather than settle for differences between the deposit you owe me and my contribution to the utility bills, we must treat these as separate matters.

Therefore, I request that you send me my deposit of <£amount> within 14 days, after which I shall take legal action for recovery in full. In respect of the amount I owe for utilities, I have no intention of depriving you of anything I owe subject to allowing me a proper opportunity to verify the amount you claim. You should understand that if you wish to take legal action or make a counterclaim to recover this money, then you will be required to provide the information I am requesting, so there is little point in contemplating legal action against me if you are not prepared to provide this information.

Love, kisses, see you in court

Luke