Halifax +0.1%

Jimmy_31

Cleaver wrote: »

Well as I said in my very first post, if you don't believe the data then there isn't really any point having this discussion.

It's like debating who's going to win the FA Cup this year. But if you don't believe that the FA Cups even exists, then it's a pretty pointless argument.

Just because I always like to hear this type of stuff, could you give maybe your top three or four points around how and why banks purposefully make up their figures for release?

Not really, i dont feel like i have to justify why i dont trust banks, you could just look at the massive amount of debt most people are struggling with due to taking the free easy money from the banks.

Or you could ask yourself why the halifax data is being investigated.

ukcarper

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Not really, i dont feel like i have to justify why i dont trust banks, you could just look at the massive amount of debt most people are struggling with due to taking the free easy money from the banks.

Or you could ask yourself why the halifax data is being investigated.

What about Land Registry figures

Out of interest Average house prices
Land Registry £162k
Halifax £163k
Nationwide £164k

Cleaver

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Not really, i dont feel like i have to justify why i dont trust banks, you could just look at the massive amount of debt most people are struggling with due to taking the free easy money from the banks.

If we didn't justify our points then this wouldn't be much of a debate board, would it?

If I follow your brief argument I think what you're proposing is that banks have lent a lot of money to people and, as a direct result of this, now fabricate the monthly figures? Apologies if I'm being a bit slow, but how does one correlate with the other? Also, I'm still not quite clear what's in it for the Halifax and Nationwide to make up their figures? I.e., is the reward (which I'm still not clear on by the way) gained from making up the stats worth it when you consider the risk of being caught undertaking major fraud?

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Or you could ask yourself why the halifax data is being investigated.

'Investigated' is a touch misleading. Reading up on it shows that it's a review to look at why the data is often inconsistant. There's no suggestion of manipulation:

Lisa Davies, spokesperson for the Office of National Statistics, says: "The review aims to examine the existing products in order to make recommendations over how to improve accessibility and usage."

The UK Statistics Authority has stressed that its review is not a criticism of the current system or a result of complaints. It says the first stage of the review will focus on how satisfied users are with the government’s two indices and the second stage will look at the market more generally and compare all the various indices.

http://www.moneywise.co.uk/news-views/2010/08/18/house-price-indices-to-be-investigated-statistics-authority

Mind you, they are probably 'in on it' as well. "Meet me by the red pigeon under the light of a full moon, as the future of house price statistics lives or dies by your actions Agent Jim."

Cleaver

ukcarper wrote: »

What about Land Registry figures

Out of interest Average house prices
Land Registry £162k
Halifax £163k
Nationwide £164k

They're all in on it together ukcarper, can't you see that? It's a big conspiracy to tell the public that houses prices are high. I've personally never trusted Halifax's stats team from the moment they brought out that press release telling me that Paul McCartney was alive and well and for me not to worry about his health.

Trust no one. The truth is out there.

Jimmy_31

Cleaver wrote: »

If we didn't justify our points then this wouldn't be much of a debate board, would it?

If I follow your brief argument I think what you're proposing is that banks have lent a lot of money to people and, as a direct result of this, now fabricate the monthly figures? Apologies if I'm being a bit slow, but how does one correlate with the other? Also, I'm still not quite clear what's in it for the Halifax and Nationwide to make up their figures? I.e., is the reward (which I'm still not clear on by the way) gained from making up the stats worth it when you consider the risk of being caught undertaking major fraud?



'Investigated' is a touch misleading. Reading up on it shows that it's a review to look at why the data is often inconsistant. There's no suggestion of manipulation:



http://www.moneywise.co.uk/news-views/2010/08/18/house-price-indices-to-be-investigated-statistics-authority

Mind you, they are probably 'in on it' as well. "Meet me by the red pigeon under the light of a full moon, as the future of house price statistics lives or dies by your actions Agent Jim."

My point is, why do people need to know the average price of a house in britain or even the area they live in, publishing average prices has probably pushed house prices up in my opinion.

Gullible people will see the banks average house price data and see it rising and think oh s*it i better buy a house quick. why cant they just leave the housing market alone and not try and influence people, im perfectly capable of buying a home without knowing the average price for my town, city, or britain.

The reward they would get from keeping figures high would be more people buying over priced houses because they think the prices will keep rising so they might end up being outpriced forever, so bigger mortgages equal more interest equals more profit.

What do you think the average price of a house would be if no data on house prices was released by anybody and no stories were ran about house prices in the newspapers, tv, or radio. i think they would be quite a lot lower than they are now.

ukcarper

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

My point is, why do people need to know the average price of a house in britain or even the area they live in, publishing average prices has probably pushed house prices up in my opinion.

Gullible people will see the banks average house price data and see it rising and think oh s*it i better buy a house quick. why cant they just leave the housing market alone and not try and influence people, im perfectly capable of buying a home without knowing the average price for my town, city, or britain.

The reward they would get from keeping figures high would be more people buying over priced houses because they think the prices will keep rising so they might end up being outpriced forever, so bigger mortgages equal more interest equals more profit.

What do you think the average price of a house would be if no data on house prices was released by anybody and no stories were ran about house prices in the newspapers, tv, or radio. i think they would be quite a lot lower than they are now.

I don’t think it has any effect and what is the Land Registries motive. I agree it’s not much use when you are looking to buy after all what is an average house.

Jimmy_31

ukcarper wrote: »

I don’t think it has any effect and what is the Land Registries motive. I agree it’s not much use when you are looking to buy after all what is an average house.

Ive been looking at houses for the last 12 months and im still yet to see an average house. I have found plenty of star buys and premium listings though and so far all that i can see that i would get in extras for the increase in price on these homes is a star buy logo or premium listing logo attached to the listing. not really worth the extra 5k imo

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

My point is, why do people need to know the average price of a house in britain or even the area they live in, .

While we're at it, let's abolish the stock market indices. After all, nobody needs to know whether prices are falling or rising. And let's keep the price of gold a closely guarded secret. Why not?

Oh, and of course, who needs any of those compare the market type websites. Complete waste of space. They're obviously driving up prices.

Genius.

Let's give people less information, less ability to compare prices, and less ability to know what's happening with houses in their area.

Although, I suppose if we reduce everyone to a bunch of thickies walking around looking in estate agents windows for their data, then at least you wouldn't be at a disadvantage......

IveSeenTheLight

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

im perfectly capable of buying a home without knowing the average price for my town, city, or britain.

You may well do.

Others are able to utilise the data provided along with a more details property type / street / local area previous sales price along with quantitiy of similar properties on the market and of course the valuation report (which incidently also takes previous sales and local average trends into consideration) to successfully make an offer on a property which is reflective and unlikely to be outbid.

Information and Knowledge does not deter in this process.

Indeed, if you believe you can buy without it, you don't need to look at it, but don;t retract that option from others who may want to use it.

crash123

The Halifax and Nationwide do have a vested interest. They have lent against property. If this falls it must be shown in the accounts.

The land registry is the most reliable but it does not include repossesions and auction properties so not a true reflection of the market and it does lag.