commuter rail fares - impact on house prices

chewmylegoff

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

LOL.... Nice try.

Those costs are split into two categories.

The standing costs are there anyway, depreciation, road tax, insurance, etc, even if you don't drive the car.

So assuming you have a car, (and if you live up here you need one as public transport just doesn't go to a lot of places) you may as well use it.

The running costs are 11p per mile. So £33 for the journey.

Way cheaper than the train.

well....no. even if you accept your flawed argument, i just looked up a train ticket on thetrainline and it is £52.50 for an off peak open return.

the running costs are not 11p per mile, they are 21.27p per mile.

that's £63.81.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

chewmylegoff wrote: »

well....no. even if you accept your flawed argument, i just looked up a train ticket on thetrainline and it is £52.50 for an off peak open return.

the running costs are not 11p per mile, they are 21.27p per mile.

that's £63.81.

Ah, you're right, I misread your post.

Still don't think it's cheaper to use public transport in real life though.

I'll take a look at that link and see what it says.

chewmylegoff

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Ah, you're right, I misread your post.

Still don't think it's cheaper to use public transport in real life though.

I'll take a look at that link and see what it says.

there is some rubbish in the running costs that can probably be stripped out (e.g. tolls and parking, 1.8p per mile apparently...)

personally i find that it is usually cheaper (sometimes a lot cheaper if you book well in advance and a flexible on timings) to use the train, as long as there is only one of you travelling.

the train usually becomes nonsensical as soon as you start adding more passengers.

e.g. it costs me £25 to drive to birmingham and back, but the train is £7.50 each way if you book in advance and take the cheapest trains.

i still drive anyway, because the trains are always screwed on sundays when you want to get home!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

.

I'll take a look at that link and see what it says.

I looked.... I laughed.... I conquered.

Those costs are absurd. No wonder it comes out more expensive!!!

For the cheapest diesel, the costs are way more than I pay in real life for a bigger/more expensive car.

Running costs (Diesel)

Diesel @ 9.92p per mile
Tyres @ 0.81p per mile
Parts @ 2.37p per mile
Labour @ 2.89p per mile
Parking/tolls @ 1.8p per mile

So based on 25,000 miles per year (about what I drive)

Diesel - £2480 per year (a bit low)
Tyres - £202.50 per year (about right)
Labour costs - £722 per year :rotfl:
Parts - £592 per year :rotfl:
Parking - £450 per year :rotfl:

Parking in real life for me = £50 a year or less. All our work locations have free parking onsite.

Servicing costs in real life = £350 a year or less. Regular services only, non-dealer specialist, car under warranty.

About 14p per mile.

So, here's a real life comparison if I were to go to our Glasgow location tomorrow morning.

Aberdeen to Glasgow, door to door.

Train ticket for tomorrow morning, Scotrail, peak, £86

Bus from home to train station £3.60 return

Taxi to our glasgow location from station, (buses very inconvenient) £8 each way.

Total public transport cost = £105.60

Total running costs to go by car = £42.70

Car wins, hands down, every time.

The only time I've ever found public transport to be cheaper in real life than driving is for inner city travel around large cities where parking charges are outrageous, or when I'm going to London and know about it in advance, when a budget airline is cheaper.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

chewmylegoff wrote: »

there is some rubbish in the running costs that can probably be stripped out (e.g. tolls and parking, 1.8p per mile apparently...)

No kidding!!! And I reckon the service costs are way overblown for new cars.... And if you're running a banger then the depreciation costs are way overblown.

personally i find that it is usually cheaper (sometimes a lot cheaper if you book well in advance and a flexible on timings) to use the train, as long as there is only one of you travelling.

Thats the problem for me, I don't usually know in advance, and could rarely travel off peak.

the train usually becomes nonsensical as soon as you start adding more passengers.

Agreed.

e.g. it costs me £25 to drive to birmingham and back, but the train is £7.50 each way if you book in advance and take the cheapest trains.

Yeah, that could make sense. If you were flexible, for recreation or something, but I can't ever see tickets up here that cheap for 100 mile plus journeys.

i still drive anyway, because the trains are always screwed on sundays when you want to get home!

And that's the other thing, you always have a comfy seat and the ability to leave when you want to with a car.

ninky_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I looked.... I laughed.... I conquered.

Those costs are absurd. No wonder it comes out more expensive!!!

For the cheapest diesel, the costs are way more than I pay in real life for a bigger/more expensive car.

Running costs (Diesel)

Diesel @ 9.92p per mile
Tyres @ 0.81p per mile
Parts @ 2.37p per mile
Labour @ 2.89p per mile
Parking/tolls @ 1.8p per mile

So based on 25,000 miles per year (about what I drive)

Diesel - £2480 per year (a bit low)
Tyres - £202.50 per year (about right)
Labour costs - £722 per year :rotfl:
Parts - £592 per year :rotfl:
Parking - £450 per year :rotfl:

Parking in real life for me = £50 a year or less. All our work locations have free parking onsite.

Servicing costs in real life = £350 a year or less. Regular services only, non-dealer specialist, car under warranty.

About 14p per mile.

So, here's a real life comparison if I were to go to our Glasgow location tomorrow morning.

Aberdeen to Glasgow, door to door.

Train ticket for tomorrow morning, Scotrail, peak, £86

Bus from home to train station £3.60 return

Taxi to our glasgow location from station, (buses very inconvenient) £8 each way.

Total public transport cost = £105.60

Total running costs to go by car = £42.70

Car wins, hands down, every time.

The only time I've ever found public transport to be cheaper in real life than driving is for inner city travel around large cities where parking charges are outrageous, or when I'm going to London and know about it in advance, when a budget airline is cheaper.

is that one way or return? most one way train fares work out more expensive but the return is cheaper whereas with a car you generally just double the costs. generally people want to return to where they came from on a journey.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

is that one way or return? most one way train fares work out more expensive but the return is cheaper whereas with a car you generally just double the costs. generally people want to return to where they came from on a journey.

Another problem with rail is you never know you are travelling the cheapest/best way for you. DH can come home on a very convieniant line, or two less convienient ones. It would be easier for him if he could get which ever the next train is on his return ticket.....just as in a car you'd take an alternative route at different ties of day/response to traffic.

To go to work most cheaply with no advanced tickets (which,like Hamish and many other commuters, particularly those who work traditional hours and therefore travel at peak)he has to buy a ticket to a station to stops from here then another from that station to London. And the same on the return journey. Also, some rail networks have a situation where there is no discount card...e.g. the only discount card I've ever had is the network south east one. TBH, I don't know about where we are now, I'll find out.


The true absurdity of the situation is this: our commuting fares SHOT up when DH moved from Milan to London. It was cheaper for him to buy budget airline tickets in advance AND NOT USE THEM ALL< but to cover his options, and me to drive 45 mins to the airport than it was for him to have a peak return from a train station 20/25 minutes away by car. (n.b unless you count the ''time is money'' situation when obviously it isn't cheaper.)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ninky wrote: »

is that one way or return? .

Return.

All figures were return, including the car journey.

kabayiri

lostinrates wrote: »

Another problem with rail is you never know you are travelling the cheapest/best way for you. DH can come home on a very convieniant line, or two less convienient ones. It would be easier for him if he could get which ever the next train is on his return ticket.....just as in a car you'd take an alternative route at different ties of day/response to traffic.
....

This very problem was highlighted on Dispatches recently. Plus, if you get the wrong ticket by error, you can face a fine.

Some years ago I would do a weekly commute from Manchester to London by train; a peak time journey Monday morning / Friday afternoon.

It was much cheaper for me to book it the opposite way round, ie make the London->Manchester journey my outbound trip. This involved the exact same train journeys. How screwy is that?

ninky_2

lostinrates wrote: »

Another problem with rail is you never know you are travelling the cheapest/best way for you. DH can come home on a very convieniant line, or two less convienient ones. It would be easier for him if he could get which ever the next train is on his return ticket.....just as in a car you'd take an alternative route at different ties of day/response to traffic.

that's privatisation for you. (or at least ill thought through privatisation). it doesn't make sense to me to have so many different companies running the railways. maybe there would be a more effective way to use market forces to improve things but the way it's been done is a dog's dinner.