Powerflush of combi boiler and Homeserve

Gerry_McLaughlin

With regards to the "farcical club" as you put it. I am a small businessman and will use any advertisjng means at my disposal. Advertising is very expensive and there are lots of ways to throw money at it with no result. I have read the Power fush web site and in no way is it misleading. It actually gives free, invaluable information to members and to customers. If you need information on power flushing, go to the Kamco website.

keystone

Gerry_McLaughlin wrote: »

As a registered gas installer it is my duty to report to the Health and Safety Executive anyone interfering with the safe operation of a gas appliance.

Of course it is. Tell me please (and at least one other poster) how applying a powerflush machine to your system can possibly be interpreted as interfering with a gas appliance.

We are obliged to install, repair and service appliances to achieve efficient and safe operation. We are systematically rooting out the installers with the "that'll do" attitude and this means more qualifications, more examinations and inevitably more expense for the installer.

Do you have a vested interest which you are not declaring?

If you get an unregistered person to carry out any work, be it fitting a boiler or power flushing a system you are asking for trouble.

The law requires any person doing gas work to be competant. End of. It says nothing about registration. You are entitled to your opinion but you are scaremongering suggesting that you HAVE to be an RGI to carry out a powerflush next you'll be telling joe on the street he can't change a rad valve himself in his own house.

~~~~You wouldn't get your GP to carry out heart surgery, or would you?

Slightly silly analogy but I take your point.

Cheers

keystone

Gerry_McLaughlin wrote: »

With regards to the "farcical club"

Yes it is a farcical club in my opinion which I am entitled to. Thats not just my opinion either. Are you a member perchance?

I am a small businessman and will use any advertisjng means at my disposal. Advertising is very expensive and there are lots of ways to throw money at it with no result.

So whats that got to do with the subject? I thought the PFA was supposed to be a professional association not an advertising vehicle. Its website is clearly very unprofessional.

I have read the Power fush web site and in no way is it misleading.

So you are quite happy and comfortable with this then:

Preventative plumbing, like power flushing seems silly till you consider that up to 80% of the problems related to your central heating system is either directly or indirectly related to sludge. The cost? A power flush is much more affordable than you think; a small systems can be as little as £150 to power flush and take as little as 2 hours to do.

It actually gives free, invaluable information to members and to customers. If you need information on power flushing, go to the Kamco website.

THank you but I don't need to go to the K site. In any event if it's all available on the K site why does it need to be repeated on the PFA site?

Cheers

Gerry_McLaughlin

Yes. Competent person, according to HSE is a gas safe registered engineer. When saying weI was refferring to all installers in my position. Yet again you take a cynical swipe at my credibility. As for Joe Bloggs connecting a powerflush machine, should he disconnect pipework connected to an appliance, he could be creating an unsafe situation. As for scaremongering. Would you prefer that people get injured? I have already stated that power flushing is an option subject to proper testing of the system. Get someone who knows what they're doing. Vested interest? How dare you. I am a legitimate businessman trying, in this tough economy, to keep operating for my customers. As i've said before, if you want the job done properly, get the person with the credentials.

Gerry_McLaughlin

If you ran your own business, you would then understand that any form of media attention, be it negative or positive, is advertising. If you have a problem with pfa i suggest you make your feelings clear to them. You have obviously had bad experiences with the Plumbing & Heating industry in the past, and for that I can only sympathise with you. We've all been ripped off in one form or another. So, you can carry on weilding your tar brush and I'll continue to provide a genuine and necessary service to my loyal customers. Trust is gained by deeds. Mistrust comes from the cynic. Be happy.

keystone

Gerry_McLaughlin wrote: »

Yes. Competent person, according to HSE is a gas safe registered engineer.

Umm - no that is not what the HSE say at all. They say:

"A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities that allow them to assist you properly. The level of competence required will depend on the complexity of the situation and the particular help you need."

That is NOT synomymous with GSR.

When saying weI was refferring to all installers in my position. Yet again you take a cynical swipe at my credibility.

OK - I take it back then. You need to reread what you write before you hit submit to understand how other people might interpret what you write.

Yet again you take a cynical swipe at my credibility.

No I answered what you write. Nowhere have I questioned your personal credibility. Actually I did once in a little way when I responded with "Good for you" after your rather pompous "I have been a plumber for 32 years and have qualifications coming our of my ears" or some such stuff. But, of curse you hadn't established any credibility at that point anyway.

As for Joe Bloggs connecting a powerflush machine, should he disconnect pipework connected to an appliance, he could be creating an unsafe situation.

So Joe Bloggs can't be trusted to follow the instructions on the machine? How would you know that he hasn't followed the instructions on the machine? Sorry but all this has overtones of "if its not permitted - its prohibited".

I have already stated that power flushing is an option subject to proper testing of the system.

Of course - where have I argued against that?

Get someone who knows what they're doing.

but GSR is not required for powerflushing or are you changing your mind on that one?

Vested interest? How dare you. I am a legitimate businessman trying, in this tough economy, to keep operating for my customers.

Don't be silly - your use of the word "we" as above may have not been what you meant and as you have now clarified I've taken that back. You really shouldn't take offence when someone reacts adversely to what you've written because you cant be bothered to draft your words to say what you eman.

As i've said before, if you want the job done properly, get the person with the credentials.

Agree 100%. If membership of the PFA is a credential for doing a powerflush they need to sharpen their act up.

Cheers

bambibashercol

A small system can be powerflushed in 2 hours? If it can it never needed doing in the first place. A 2 hour flush is still going to leave carp in the system. On a new install with new rads and new pipe, flushing sentinel x300 still takes a hour and that's a sludge free system.
I agree that the heating industry is moving forward but misinformation by a rgi does not help the industry.
No where in the regs does it state that you must be a rgi or even competent to power flush a system and it's nothing to do with the hse. If you really believe that i suggest you speak to gas safe for clarification and get it put in writing.
It is no legal requirement to be a member of this pfa to power flush a system, But i suppose when some have invested £1000 in a kamco or a norstrom machine they have to make it pay, That's business and fair enough but we don't need the bs spouted about it being done by rgi.

Cardew

As written earlier:

For a trade association to have any value it must have approved procedures and be able to verify that the firm is competent to carry out those procedures; and that means the ability to carry out assessments and inspections.

What about complaints procedures, how would the ‘Power Flush Association’ adjudicate and what sanctions would they impose on errant firms?

How would membership of ‘Power Flush Association’ in any way ensure a firm were not ‘cowboys’.

Just another meaningless association!

P.S.
The 'harm' is that some gullible customers might believe that association membership meant something!

Read the PFA website about the qualifications for joining - no check of competance, no monitoring of work, no setting of prices for jobs - completely meaningless!

keystone

Gerry_McLaughlin wrote: »

If you ran your own business,

I do.

you would then understand that any form of media attention, be it negative or positive, is advertising.

Don't need to thanks. All my work is by recommendation and/or repeat business. If thats also a form of advertising in your book so be it. Such, however, was not the point I was making.

If you have a problem with pfa i suggest you make your feelings clear to them.

I don't have a problem with PFA as a concept per se. I have already said that the website is unprofessional and makes ludicrous claims and that if they are to be taken seriously trhen they really need to sharpen their act up. As far as contacting them is concerned frankly I can't be a...ed. If you are a member (and you haven't answered that question I note) perhaps the concerns being raised on this board, by quite a few people and not just me, would carry more weight if they were raised from within. I realy do have a problem with spammers with 1 or 2 post counts turning up here just to plug a pointless club. You seem to think that makes me anti powerflushing and anti plumbers. I truly can't imagine what leap of imagination leads you to that conclusion.

You have obviously had bad experiences with the Plumbing & Heating industry in the past,

Whatever makes you think that?

and for that I can only sympathise with you. We've all been ripped off in one form or another.

You are too kind.

So, you can carry on weilding your tar brush

Yes, thought so you are clearly reading what you want to read and not what is written.

and I'll continue to provide a genuine and necessary service to my loyal customers.

Why should I expect otherwise?

Trust is gained by deeds. Mistrust comes from the cynic.

Yeah! Whatever!

Be happy.

Always dear boy, always.

Cheers

adonis

Well according to the powerflush association, rust on the outside of a radiator means that you need a powerflush.
picture here

And i thought the rust on my bathroom radiator was caused by condensation along with the rusty shower curtain rail.:rotfl: