Employment Law and Annual Leave

NikNox

I've also looked and cannot find anything solid. The employer does have the right to refuse a request for leave, which is fair enough as we don't all request leave when it's convenient do we. But, my husband originally had the second week booked and approved, they asked him to change it to the first week of Easter, which he did, it was then entered into the leave book and put on the leave calendar, therefore it has been booked and approved, but they asked him to have that week anyway, so effectively he didn't actually request it as it was their request he have that week.

I would imagine that in the scheme of things if they did dismiss him for not attending work that week, they wouldn't come off well at Tribunal seeing as they insisted he had that week in the first place, and then turn round and tell him he can't have it after he's rearranged having his daughter etc., in order to comply with an Order of the Court.

Maybe they've shot themselves in the foot by insisting he have that week in the first place!

NikNox

KiKi wrote: »

I worked for 11 years in the public sector and, like you, as long as one of us was in the office, could take our leave as and when. It just wasn't an issue. That was partly to do with the nature of the job, but mostly because the organisation understood that working with employees creates much better results. Also, of course, there were lots of us in an office - it wasn't a small business where a shop had to be open or anything. The business need was different.

Plus, if what had happened with your husband happened in my previous organisation, there would have been grievances, investigations, TUs involved etc!

When I took a career break I worked in Aus for a small business and I got a bit of a shock when I said I'd like a day's leave to pick my parents up from the airport when they visited me - only to be told no!!


KiKi

The thing is that if your employers treat you with the respect you deserve, they get it back threefold. A bit of give and take never did anyone any harm, and happy staff are far more likely to go the extra mile when needed to. Hence, I have been with my employer for 15 years and absolutely love it! They are respectful to people's needs, staff as well as patients, and at present we have 2 members of staff with very poorly elderly parents, and no-one bats an eyelid when they have to go off to care for them, take them to appointments etc. Yes, they have to pay back the time they take off, of course, but it's just not a problem. If any of us wanted to collect parents or loved ones from the airport we would just take time out to pay back later, or swap a shift. We certainly wouldn't be told 'no'. Our Practice Manager says there is a solution to every problem, and working together means working it out.

getmore4less

I need to catch up on the thread but a bit distracted so will make a point I have made befere in case it has not been highlighted

Once an employer agrees to a holiday then it becomes contractual, to then refuse it need a mutual agreement, and I would always expect financial losses to be compensated.

There are rules and time limits for requesting and getting refused holidays but once agreed it is contractual, IMHO.

NikNox

getmore4less wrote: »

I need to catch up on the thread but a bit distracted so will make a point I have made befere in case it has not been highlighted

Once an employer agrees to a holiday then it becomes contractual, to then refuse it need a mutual agreement, and I would always expect financial losses to be compensated.

There are rules and time limits for requesting and getting refused holidays but once agreed it is contractual, IMHO.

And add to that the fact that the week they are telling him he cannot have is the week they insisted he have in the first place!

MrsTinks

If in doubt - contact CAB or maybe even ACAS
Does he have an employment contract or even an employee handbook? That could help clarify what the rules he's signed up to are... personally in the long run I'd get him out looking for a better employer if it were me...

Sambucus_Nigra

An employer can do what they want; pretty much.

The question is - what can you do about it if they DO do it?

This means that if they sack him for taking the time off, it would have to go to tribunal; which means gathering evidence for this...and proving it. So, make sure he is taking notes of every conversation, is asking for it to be confirmed in writing, is ceremoniously looking at his watch and writing down what has been said or done - even the act of doing this is a little unnerving to employers as they do not know what advice you have got behind the scenes.

Get him to read very carefully his terms and conditions/leave policy and quote that back at them to the letter.

He needs to take control and manage this situation or he may well end up without a job...

After he has informed the manager about the court order of course; if negotiation doesn't work then play hard.

NikNox

MrsTine wrote: »

If in doubt - contact CAB or maybe even ACAS
Does he have an employment contract or even an employee handbook? That could help clarify what the rules he's signed up to are... personally in the long run I'd get him out looking for a better employer if it were me...

He does indeed have a contract, but there's nothing in it to state that his employer can do this, just sets out his annual leave entitlement. No employee handbook. Hopefully chatting to his manager on a softly softly 'I need your help' basis will work, fingers crossed. My husband did say that he may negotiate a compromise and agree to go in on the Thursday of that week as we're only away from Sunday to Wednesday. We'll see. As for getting another job, well he's looking constantly, it's just very difficult these days and if he was unemployed we would be in a very very dire situation, so he needs to stay there until he actually has another job to go to.

jazzyman01

The other thing you can do, in gathering evidence, is to write a letter stating that he had originally asked for the second week and it was at the request of the business that he move it to the first. He had to make a number of changes in order to do this - explain the reasons - but did it because he understood the business reasons. He could state that he has booked the holiday, you have booked yours and he wants to take the holiday and considers it unreasonable to be disciplined for moving his holiday at the request of the Company and wishing to take it.

He is taking a risk of being dismissed, but with the documentary evidence in place, should win at ET.

NikNox

Well, we have a good outcome. My husband arrived at work this morning and the colleague who was being sent to the Trade Fair during my husband's booked leave told the boss that he's not willing to go to the Trade Fair if it means my husband has to forgo booked leave, and they seem to have accepted that. This colleague spoke to my husband and said that he was 100% behind him and thought that the manager and boss were treating my husband very unfairly, so he was going to tell them he wasn't prepared to go to the Trade Fair, which he did. I spoke to my husband this afternoon and he said all was well and he wasn't getting any bad vibes from the manager or boss, nor has he received a written warning. However, he is going to ask them to provide written confirmation of the rest of his booked annual leave, as all of it has been booked in accordance with the Contact Order and has been agreed by his daughter's mother. It's all been approved and written into the leave book and put on the leave calendar, but at my husband's company that doesn't appear to suggest security!! So, if he also has his leave backed up with written confirmation that it is booked, from the Manager, should they turn around at the last minute and insist he cancels it, he'll have something to fall back on other than what's already in place.

I forgot to mention previously that last year during annual leave he went in on the odd day, when we weren't away, because his colleague was sick and I was available to look after his daughter, so he does go with the needs of the company where he can. Sadly, he got no thanks for that, but that's not really surprising!

KiKi

That's a fantastic outcome, and good on your husband for getting written back up. Thanks for updating us.

In future it sounds like it might be a good idea for your husband to always get written confirmation of leave, or to gently suggest to the boss that they need a process to ensure that no-one in the company (inc the boss) has this happen again!

Very glad it's worked out for you.
KiKi