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Employment Law and Annual Leave
NikNox
Posts: 347 Forumite
Hi folks,
I've posted before about my husband's rather archaic and unhuman boss, but this time they're really overstepping the mark, we think. Basically my husband has booked the first week of Easter as annual leave. Originally he had the second week booked off, but they asked him to change it to the first week due to staff shortage during the second week. He also has Court Ordered Contact with his 12 year old daughter, and gets half of school holidays, so changing from the second week of Easter to the first caused upset with her mother, but in the end she agreed. He only spends 6 weeks per year, and every other weekend with his child.
Today he was 'told' he has to cancel his leave for the first week of the Easter holiday. One of his colleagues is going to a Trade Fair that week and his manager has told him he cannot have that week. My husband stood his ground and said that they cannot request he cancels leave which is booked for 2 week's time, especially after asking him to change the week less than a month ago. His manager gave him a verbal warning and said he would be receiving a written warning for 'not being a team player and making sacrifices for the good of the company'. His boss then got involved and said 'I don't get to see my kids every day, so I don't know what the problem is' to which my husband replied 'well you live with your kids don't you, so it's entirely different. I have the week booked off, so does my wife and we're going away. I'm taking it as leave and that's that'. His boss asked where we are going, and when my husband told him we're off to a seaside town, he said 'well I bet it's only B&B, so you can cancel that can't you'.
He expects to receive his written warning tomorrow.
What we would like to know is:-
1. Can he be given a written warning for refusing to cancel booked leave?
2. Can he be forced to cancel booked leave?
3. As there is no-one above his boss in the company (i.e. no HR or Personnel Department, or even a grievance procedure), who would he go to for advice.
He's been with the company for 5 years.
Thanks.
I've posted before about my husband's rather archaic and unhuman boss, but this time they're really overstepping the mark, we think. Basically my husband has booked the first week of Easter as annual leave. Originally he had the second week booked off, but they asked him to change it to the first week due to staff shortage during the second week. He also has Court Ordered Contact with his 12 year old daughter, and gets half of school holidays, so changing from the second week of Easter to the first caused upset with her mother, but in the end she agreed. He only spends 6 weeks per year, and every other weekend with his child.
Today he was 'told' he has to cancel his leave for the first week of the Easter holiday. One of his colleagues is going to a Trade Fair that week and his manager has told him he cannot have that week. My husband stood his ground and said that they cannot request he cancels leave which is booked for 2 week's time, especially after asking him to change the week less than a month ago. His manager gave him a verbal warning and said he would be receiving a written warning for 'not being a team player and making sacrifices for the good of the company'. His boss then got involved and said 'I don't get to see my kids every day, so I don't know what the problem is' to which my husband replied 'well you live with your kids don't you, so it's entirely different. I have the week booked off, so does my wife and we're going away. I'm taking it as leave and that's that'. His boss asked where we are going, and when my husband told him we're off to a seaside town, he said 'well I bet it's only B&B, so you can cancel that can't you'.
He expects to receive his written warning tomorrow.
What we would like to know is:-
1. Can he be given a written warning for refusing to cancel booked leave?
2. Can he be forced to cancel booked leave?
3. As there is no-one above his boss in the company (i.e. no HR or Personnel Department, or even a grievance procedure), who would he go to for advice.
He's been with the company for 5 years.
Thanks.
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Comments
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1. Can he be given a written warning for refusing to cancel booked leave?
2. Can he be forced to cancel booked leave?
3. As there is no-one above his boss in the company (i.e. no HR or Personnel Department, or even a grievance procedure), who would he go to for advice.
He's been with the company for 5 years.
Thanks.
I'm answering these in a different order:
2 - He can be refused leave, yes. The employer has a right to control when leave is taken. The employer has a right to cancel or refuse leave as long as they give you notice which is as long as your leave. So if you have a week off, they can give you a week's notice that it can't go ahead.
1 - Put it this way: if the employer doesn't give a warning and expects him in, and he doesn't turn up, then he can be dismissed for Gross Misconduct for not attending work. So I don't think a written warning is extreme for refusing to cancel the booked leave. In fact, it's preferable for your husband!
Having said that, if an employee told me they couldn't cancel and I insisted, I wouldn't warn them, I'd wait for them to not attend work then issue either a written warning or dismissal for non-attendance rather than refusal.
3 - No-one, I'm afraid. The boss sounds like an a**ehole, but he's within his rights. Your husband sounds like he'd be better off finding another job rather than working for this guy.
Sorry, I wish I could say something more positive.
This website is helpful for your employment rights: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10034711
KiKi' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".0 -
So even though my husband originally had the second week of the Easter break booked and they asked him to move it to the first week, which he did, they can still insist he cancels that leave too? Which means that he wouldn't be able to have his daughter to stay, or don't employers have to take into consideration child care, which I guess it would come under, sort of.
What I mean is that he has Court ordered contact for half of school holidays, and if he doesn't have his child for half of all school holidays he would be in breach of the Order in the same way as his ex would be for not allowing contact, and theoretically he could be fined or sentenced to Community Service.
The manager has only been in post for a short while, and isn't aware of the circumstances surrounding my husband having to fight in Court for contact with his daughter, so I've suggested he takes him out for lunch tomorrow for an informal chat, so that my husband can explain why it's so important his leave is left intact.
I'm astounded that employers can actually insist an employee cancels booked leave.0 -
Your employer can refuse permission for your holiday as long as they give you notice which is at least as long as the holiday requested. So to refuse a request for a week's leave, they would have to tell you a week in advance.
I've just been to the website and copied and pasted the above. This seems to be refusing a 'request' for leave. My husband's leave has already been approved and is marked in the leave book and on the leave calendar. They are asking him to cancel leave that has already been permitted and approved.0 -
So even though my husband originally had the second week of the Easter break booked and they asked him to move it to the first week, which he did, they can still insist he cancels that leave too? Which means that he wouldn't be able to have his daughter to stay, or don't employers have to take into consideration child care, which I guess it would come under, sort of.
Employers have total control of paid leave. If they receive requests for certain working times or flexible working due to child care they can consider it, but have no obligation to work around it.What I mean is that he has Court ordered contact for half of school holidays, and if he doesn't have his child for half of all school holidays he would be in breach of the Order in the same way as his ex would be for not allowing contact, and theoretically he could be fined or sentenced to Community Service.
I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it's not the employer's concern.
Any good, decent employer who wants to do the right thing by their staff and wants good performance back *will* work with the employee to accommodate where they can this sort of thing.
Sadly it doesn't sound like this boss cares very much at all.The manager has only been in post for a short while, and isn't aware of the circumstances surrounding my husband having to fight in Court for contact with his daughter, so I've suggested he takes him out for lunch tomorrow for an informal chat, so that my husband can explain why it's so important his leave is left intact.
That sounds like an excellent idea. Perhaps your husband can also explain about the court order and the need to abide by it for his daughter, too. You never know, he might resolve it this way.
Make sure he keeps calm and does it in a 'I need your help' way rather than a 'you're ruining my life' way!
I'm astounded that employers can actually insist an employee cancels booked leave.
They can control all paid leave, full stop. I don't agree with what they've done at all, btw, I'm just telling you the legal position! Your husband could call ACAS, but I don't think they'd be able to recommend anything further. Personal negotiation with the boss is probably the only way to go.
KiKi' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".0 -
Wow, I am gobsmacked to be honest. I work for the NHS in a small GP Practice, and leave is honoured regardless. Even if everyone else went off sick they would never insist you cancel your leave, and it is always respected. I've even offered to go in on weeks when I am booked off to help out (I am a phlebotomist), but have always been told 'leave is leave, you've booked it so you have it'. Guess I'm lucky!
Seems like the only option is to try the informal approach, and I agree, the 'I need your help' lead is the best one. Things today apparently got a little heated, which of course needs to be avoided at all costs. After all, they have already made him change the week once, and are now insisting he has no leave at all over Easter. It's highly unlikely that my husband's ex would take him to Court for breaching the Contact Order, but it is possible, and that could cost him dearly, so he needs to explain all of this to his manager. Softly softly could well pay off.
What is annoying, particularly, is that my husband had an X-ray appointment for today at 3.15 which we had to cancel because he was told 2 weeks ago he couldn't go. Today, when his manager approached him about the leave, he said 'what do you want, the good news or the bad news?' My husband said 'the good news' and was told 'well, you can go for your X-ray this afternoon, but you can't have any time off over Easter'. Of course we cancelled the X-ray appointment as soon as we knew he wasn't allowed to attend, and it's been rescheduled for the Monday of his week off!!!!!!!! That's why things got a bit heated because he really felt they were taking the you know what!0 -
an employer can refuse a request for leave as long as they give at least as much notice as the leave requested, as far as i know they cant cancel leave once permission has been granted.Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.0
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Wow, I am gobsmacked to be honest. I work for the NHS in a small GP Practice, and leave is honoured regardless. Even if everyone else went off sick they would never insist you cancel your leave, and it is always respected. I've even offered to go in on weeks when I am booked off to help out (I am a phlebotomist), but have always been told 'leave is leave, you've booked it so you have it'. Guess I'm lucky!
I worked for 11 years in the public sector and, like you, as long as one of us was in the office, could take our leave as and when. It just wasn't an issue. That was partly to do with the nature of the job, but mostly because the organisation understood that working with employees creates much better results. Also, of course, there were lots of us in an office - it wasn't a small business where a shop had to be open or anything. The business need was different.
Plus, if what had happened with your husband happened in my previous organisation, there would have been grievances, investigations, TUs involved etc!
When I took a career break I worked in Aus for a small business and I got a bit of a shock when I said I'd like a day's leave to pick my parents up from the airport when they visited me - only to be told no!!
KiKi' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".0 -
paddedjohn wrote: »an employer can refuse a request for leave as long as they give at least as much notice as the leave requested, as far as i know they cant cancel leave once permission has been granted.
Do you have a legal reference for that? I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely interested, as that would help the OP no end!
I was of the understanding that they could cancel leave, but if that's not the case, I'll stand corrected and the OP will be very happy!
KiKi' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".0 -
Edited because I can't quote and edit properly...!' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".0
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Do you have a legal reference for that? I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely interested, as that would help the OP no end!
I was of the understanding that they could cancel leave, but if that's not the case, I'll stand corrected and the OP will be very happy!
KiKi
no im sorry, i may be out on a limb here but its just something ive always understood to be true, nothing to back it up but i cant find anything to the contrary either:oBe Alert..........Britain needs lerts.0
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