Would you report someone you knew for benefit fraud?

Pollycat

Raine_E_Day wrote: »

I wasn't being specific, merely providing an example that shows that if benefit fraud is suspected, nevermind where it originates, then until proved - or not it can affect payment of that benefit resulting in distress and hardship. No government department is going to carry on paying full amount if fraud/overpayment is a possibility as they would be compounding the overpayment, so I think it's a relevant link because it shows how the system works once fraud is reported.

The example you gave in the link relates to housing benefit (i.e rent not being paid).
It MIGHT relate to other benefits but that's not specifically stated.
So the link might be relevant to HB/CTB but not necessarily to DWP benefits too.
It might show how councils deal with fraudulent claims for HB/CTB but not necessarily DWP paid benefits.
So therefore not necessarily relevant.

Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit may be handled differently as this is managed by local councils not DWP.

Advice from DWP:

Contact the office that pays your benefit. And if you receive Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit, remember to tell your local council as well.

Raine_E_Day wrote: »

I wasn't being specific, merely providing an example that shows that if benefit fraud is suspected, nevermind where it originates, then until proved - or not it can affect payment of that benefit resulting in distress and hardship.

Not according to the DWP website:

From 1 April 2010, you could have your benefit stopped or reduced for 4 weeks if you are convicted, cautioned or given an administrative penalty for a first offence of benefit fraud.

So (as I said in an earlier post) it doesn't sound like they stop benefits just because somebody reports someone else.

And THAT'S why I would kick up a fuss if I was on benefits (legitimately) and they stopped them BEFORE conducting an investigation (which would prove I was legitimately entitled to claim) because someone had reported me.

Raine_E_Day

Pollycat, you stated:
"Your first paragraph is totally different to what they say on the website.
I'm assuming you weren't convicted, but were you cautioned or given an adminstrative penalty?
If you weren't, I would want to know why/how they could stop benefits before doing that."

That is why I gave an example (doesn't matter what benefit) as you seem to think it has to be proved first. It doesn't.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/BenefitFraud/DG_10035820

"If you are suspected of committing benefit fraud you will be contacted by the Department for Work and Pensions or your local authority. You may be visited by Fraud Investigation Officers or be asked to attend an interview to discuss your claim. Your benefit may be suspended while the matter is looked into. If this happens, you should receive a letter explaining what will happen next."

Pollycat

Raine_E_Day wrote: »

Pollycat, you stated:
"Your first paragraph is totally different to what they say on the website.
I'm assuming you weren't convicted, but were you cautioned or given an adminstrative penalty?
If you weren't, I would want to know why/how they could stop benefits before doing that."

That is why I gave an example (doesn't matter what benefit) as you seem to think it has to be proved first. It doesn't.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/BenefitFraud/DG_10035820

"If you are suspected of committing benefit fraud you will be contacted by the Department for Work and Pensions or your local authority. You may be visited by Fraud Investigation Officers or be asked to attend an interview to discuss your claim. Your benefit may be suspended while the matter is looked into. If this happens, you should receive a letter explaining what will happen next."

I 'seemed' to think it had to be proved first based on what it said on here:
http://campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/campaigns/benefit-thieves/penalties.asp

From 1 April 2010, you could have your benefit stopped or reduced for 4 weeks if you are convicted, cautioned or given an administrative penalty for a first offence of benefit fraud.

i.e NOT just under investigation.

What you omitted to mention in your post giving the link and your quote about "benefit maybe being suspended while the matter is looked into" taken from the link is that it says THIS on the same page further down:

Important changes to the rules around loss of benefit entitlement following a benefit fraud offence come into effect from 1 April 2010.
If you commit a first offence resulting in a conviction, administrative penalty or caution, it will be subject to a ‘One Strike’ sanction. This means you may lose your right to continue receiving benefit payments for a four-week period.
You will be notified if the ‘One Strike’ sanction is applied to your benefits.

To me, that clearly says that they won't stop your benefits until the investigation is complete.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

Also:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/BenefitFraud/DG_10014876

What happens after you report someone

The Fraud Investigation Service will look at the information you give. If you have given enough information, they will check the person's benefit claim.
The investigation might take some time, and the Fraud Investigation Service aren't allowed to tell you the outcome.
Sometimes no action is taken. It might be that the person has declared the change in their circumstances and their benefit is not affected by it.
The Fraud Investigation Service will only take action if they find the person has been committing benefit fraud. Action can include removing a person's benefits and taking them to court.

Where does it say there that benefits will be stopped whilst an investigation is underway?

The_mangler

I can only speak of our experience and we were told that as they had sufficient evidence at that time to prove we had committed fraud, they were stopping our benefits whilst the investigation continued. Which is what happened. The fraud investigator told DWP and the Council to stop payments of both Income Support and Housing/Council Tax benefits, leaving our rent to our private landlord in arrears for 16 weeks - not a good situation to be in. Thankfully we have understanding landlords who had faith in us and trusted us when we told them we were innocent, as was proved.

Once again, this just goes to show the DWP are a law unto themselves. And you have more rights if you were arrested - my husband was refused a MH advocate to support him in the interview because in the investigator's opinion one was not necessary - not even the Police could have got away with that.

Pollycat

The Mangler,
you don't say when you were the victim of the DWP's inept (being kind to them) investigation but you do mention it 'took 8 months to sort out' so maybe it was pre 1/4/2010 which is the date that they say they introduced "important changes to the rules around loss of benefit entitlement following a benefit fraud offence".

The DWP may be a 'law unto themselves' but they should (imho) be be accountable to somebody when they get things wrong.

That's why I personally wouldn't have let this drop if it had happened to me - but maybe I would if I were in the same circumstances as you with the probable negative effect on your OH of prolonging it.

The_mangler

We were notified of benefit being stopped in July last year - we were interviewed end of August. We were notified of no charges in February this year.

I would love to kick things up, in particular the investigating officer's attitude towards us both but as you say, my husband's health is fragile to say the least, Im not doing too well myself and until I am stronger I cannot face any more fighting. Maybe in time I will, I have kept records of everything and am still in touch with my solicitor but Im needed more at home right now and I think more upset would damage us both further.

The only reason I have brought this up is just to show that they can and do make mistakes and you are treated as guilty until proved innocent. I would appeal to everyone reporting others to be 100% sure of your facts because it has pushed my family to suicide attempts.

Raine_E_Day

Pollycat wrote: »

Where does it say there that benefits will be stopped whilst an investigation is underway?

On their website, as quoted, it says MAY be suspended while being investigated (as I said). It is very hard to live on reduced amounts whilst ongoing investigations take place, which can be months.

The statements you are quoting are from the outcome of the investigation. I am talking about the hardship that can happen when someone is reported as committing benefit fraud whether true or not.

wearside_2

The_mangler wrote: »

I can only speak of our experience and we were told that as they had sufficient evidence at that time to prove we had committed fraud, they were stopping our benefits whilst the investigation continued. Which is what happened. The fraud investigator told DWP and the Council to stop payments of both Income Support and Housing/Council Tax benefits, leaving our rent to our private landlord in arrears for 16 weeks - not a good situation to be in. Thankfully we have understanding landlords who had faith in us and trusted us when we told them we were innocent, as was proved.

Once again, this just goes to show the DWP are a law unto themselves. And you have more rights if you were arrested - my husband was refused a MH advocate to support him in the interview because in the investigator's opinion one was not necessary - not even the Police could have got away with that.

Fraud Investigators have no power to stop or suspend Benefit. They would have presented the facts to a Decision Maker, who would have made a decision one way or another based on the evidence. This was introduced as the Investigators were thought to be somewhat biased!

The_mangler

wearside wrote: »

Fraud Investigators have no power to stop or suspend Benefit. They would have presented the facts to a Decision Maker, who would have made a decision one way or another based on the evidence. This was introduced as the Investigators were thought to be somewhat biased!

I am afraid you are wrong. Our benefits were suspended on the orders from the Investigating Officer. All the time they were stopped he was investigating us still, then he concluded his investigation and passed it on to the decision maker - our benefits were still suspended at that point!

Too many people are pushed to the edge with these investigations so bad actions go unreported. I fully intend to let everyone know just what happened to us but as I said, our health has suffered greatly and Im not well enough right now

Pollycat

Raine_E_Day wrote: »

On their website, as quoted, it says MAY be suspended while being investigated (as I said). It is very hard to live on reduced amounts whilst ongoing investigations take place, which can be months.

The statements you are quoting are from the outcome of the investigation. I am talking about the hardship that can happen when someone is reported as committing benefit fraud whether true or not.

Sorry, but I still read it as they don't stop benefits until/if

you are convicted, cautioned or given an administrative penalty

I wholeheatedly sympathise with The Mangler's situation but have zero sympathy with anyone who suffers 'hardship' as a result of being caught intentionally fraudulently claiming benefits - and that includes not telling the council if someone moves in with you.