Should I discourage my kids from going to Uni?

Oldernotwiser

gwhizz75 wrote: »

To make such an ignorant comment is also laughable. I studied psychology at university, taking criminology as a module in my final year and I was offered a place on a primary teacher training course. One of my best friends did the same and she is currently in the final stages of her primary PGCE.

I decided not to take the place on the teaching course and instead I am now training to be a clinical psychologist... I can't imagine many people feeling that this is not a "useful" career.

My brother studied criminology and is now a social worker. And although a criminology degree won't get you into the police, it can help you to progress through the ranks quicker.

You could also go on to do something like forensic psychology with a degree like this.

A lot of people make catty remarks about subjects like psychology, not realising how much maths and science is involved in the subject. THAT is why you can get onto a PGCE if you study psychology. It doesn't just cover one of the core subjects, it covers them all as well as dealing with child development and behavioural disorders.

You have misread my point which was that a degree in Criminology and Psychology is pretty pointless, I wasn't talking about a full degree in Psychology.

Psychology can be tacked on to all sorts of degrees like Marketing, to pad them out/give them same academic validity/use the available time of Psychology lecturers etc.This is not at all the same thing as doing a validated, full degree in Psychology which is, as you say, academically rigorous.

In my experience Criminology degrees are marketed quite ruthlessly to students who have seen too many films and TV about profiling and who are told that it will give them an advantage in entering the Police or Prison Service. I have also seen it sold heavily to students who want to work with young offenders, where it would've been far more appropriate for them to do a Social Work degree.

You have jumped in very heavily to attack a position I haven't taken.

Oldernotwiser

wintersunshine wrote: »

There are lots of undesirable sides to Uni - like the amount of drinking that goes on. Many parents worry about their kids drinking at Uni. One of my friend's sons has taken to drinking every night. Her and her hubby barely drink at all. She is a social worker and he works for a charity.

Watching your kids get in to debt and turned in to drunks is another side of the "UK Uni Experience" it's not all about expanding your mind is it?

Many of us adults drink a couple of glasses of wine nearly every night - does that doesn't make us drunks!

Have you no idea of the amount of alcohol consumed by young people every night in town centres across the country? Excess alcohol consumption isn't just something that only students do, in fact they have less money for it than young people who are working.

minerva_windsong

My eldest sister and I both went to uni and did what might be deemed 'useless' degrees at fairly well regarded universities (English at York and American Studies at Sheffield). She went under the old student loan system (ie the pay it back in however many instalments after you earn £x) and I went under the current system (pay the loan back at 9% of your earnings over £15K, which I think is worse than the new legislation where you only start paying it back when you earn more than £21K). Both of us came out with 2:1s. She worked in a variety of jobs both in London and the US, mainly for charities and government organisations, now works for the Ombudsman and bought her first home last year aged 35. I've been working in my current job in an NHS press office since the summer I graduated (I'm 23) and am about to move to London to temp and take up an internship to help get to my dream of writing for a living after getting this close to a dream copywriting job. I did think about a Masters but ultimately it would have been something I had done purely for the fun of it (I wanted to do Film and Literature Studies) and wouldn't have done much for me in the long run, although I'm not saying I'll never do it when/if I can afford to.

My other sister was going to go to university and got accepted to, amongst other places, Columbia University in New York, but decided not to go in the end (I'm not entirely sure why as she's a few years older than me so I wasn't really involved in it all) and went straight to work after doing her A levels. She ended up as a corporate high flier at a large bank with her own house at 25 before giving it up to become a full time mum, and is now retraining to become a horseriding instructor.

I don't regret going to university in the slightest. OK it wasn't the cheapest thing I've ever done, but I met some of my best friends and my OH there, took a course that I absolutely loved purely for that reason (everyone asked me if I was going to teach but I am not teacher material by any means!) and worked damn hard at it, had some amazing new experiences and gained an awful lot of new skills I might not otherwise have had, like managing my time, budgeting, conflict resolution in dealing with squabbling housemates, developing arguments, research etc, which I personally feel are more valuable to me than owning a house. I also had a lot of fun but equally I wasn't acting like an idiot - yes there were a few nights where I got a bit too merry but I never did anything like annoy the neighbours (or I hope I didn't) or break anything or nick traffic cones or take drugs, and some of my best nights at uni were as simple as sitting around in friends' kitchens talking until the small hours. There are always a handful of idiots, at university and in life generally, who do do daft things like that, and give everyone else a bad name, but the overwhelming majority of people I knew both worked hard and played hard without going overboard on either - obviously it's not good to waste your time mucking about but equally you don't want to drive yourself bonkers by slaving away over books all hours.

I was very lucky to have generous parents who supported me during term time (on the understanding I worked in the holidays), and intend to do the same for my kids if I have any and they want to go to university, but I would always encourage them to do what they wanted with their lives and not necessarily go because they felt they 'should' or because everyone else was going. If that's a degree, either in a subject they love or one that will get them a good job at the end of it, going straight into the world of work or taking a gap year, then so be it (although I'd encourage them to work during the gap year rather than solely lounging around on some beach in Australia).

However I will say that some of the more vocational courses - journalism, advertising, photography etc, which in my experience tend to value on the job experience more than academicss - don't necessarily need to be taught at university and could quite easily be transferred to specialist FE colleges, much as that makes me sound like an elitist snob. Equally I don't think that kids who aren't academic should be forced to go to university if they don't want to and think that the 50% target caused a lot of problems, not least because then schools started drilling it into kids that if they didn't ace their GCSEs they wouldn't get into sixth form and they wouldn't go to university and their lives would effectively be failures.

And I knew a few people who did Spanish poetry, either as part of their English degree (the single subject students had to do a module on the literature of a foreign language, and I think the Spanish was more useful than mine which was Anglo-Saxon and done purely for the joy of it) or those who did Spanish degrees.

mountainofdebt wrote: »

In my experience, schools only seemed geared up to sending pupils who stay onto A levels to University; they don't seem to know what to do with anyone expressing a preference not to go to Uni.

If people are not going to be encouring their children to go to University then the Careers Service needs to up its game as well for these very people.

Very true. I remember a kid in my class at high school who, when everyone else was going on about what sixth form they were going to go to and what they were going to take, said he was going to be a joiner. He left at 16, did the apprenticeship and now has his own business and recently put down a deposit on a house at the age of 23.

And I think that includes uni career services as well. Most of the people I know who went to uni but didn't actually know what they wanted to do with themselves on some level are the ones now who are struggling a few years later, whereas the ones who always had an idea what they'd like to do for a living, even if they didn't necessarily do a degree that would get them a job at the end of it, are all either in jobs related to what they wanted to do or doing things to get those jobs (such as my best friend, who's working in an admin job to save up to do her PhD with a view to eventually becoming a lecturer).

clearingout

pigpen wrote: »

I hate the idea of a waste of time course.. spanish poetry.. !!!!!! is that about?? what good could that possibly be to man or beast? and other such rhubarb... they are a complete waste of money.

Well, the English are some of the worst communicators in the world, fuelled by arrogance that we are the most important people business-wise, policitcally etc. and that everyone should speak our language. Spanish poetry would require someone to have an incredibly detailed grasp of the Spanish language - gramatically, idiomatically, vocab-wise etc. etc. Someone with those kinds of skills are valuable to our country in many ways but particularly in big business where multi-million pound deals need to be negoiated with the help of an interpreter, perhaps?

The ability to speak, read, write and understand a foreign language at such a level involves considerable brain power and personal commitment to learning. Such people are useful in all walks of life, don't you think?

Blue22

Several on this thread have supplied anecdotal evidence of how degrees in Psychology/Sociology/Social Policy can be vocationally relevant and lead to well paid careers.

Although this may be true for some, I don't believe it is for the majority.

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=6439

Over 50% of graduates in these subjects are either unemployed or working in a non graduate positions a year after graduation.

Oldernotwiser

Blue22 wrote: »

Several on this thread have supplied anecdotal evidence of how degrees in Psychology/Sociology/Social Policy can be vocationally relevant and lead to well paid careers.

Although this may be true for some, I don't believe it is for the majority.

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=6439

Over 50% of graduates in these subjects are either unemployed or working in a non graduate positions a year after graduation.

What may surprise some people is that Law (which some people here have mentioned as a sensible, vocational degree) has only 24% of graduates employed in graduate jobs ( whether studying or not) whereas Iberian Languages (which presumably includes the much maligned Spanish Poetry) the equivalent figure is 44%.

Just goes to show the level of ignorance that some people have displayed on this thread.

clearingout

but to employment rates justify NOT studying an area you are good at or interested in? If 44% of Iberian Language graduates are not 'suitably' employed (and I would question who is defining whether a particular role is 'graduate' or not) then presumably 66% ARE employed 'suitably'?

[Deleted User]

Sometimes I do wonder just how useful my 3 years studying Genetics was. Sure, i can read a Richard Dawkins book with a greater appreciation than a lot of other people, and it made a small impact on the start of my career.

I guess I will encourage my son to go to uni when it's time - assuming he's academic. I had a great time, met some great people, learned a lot of stuff (academic and life lessons) and had some great nights out. They truly were my formative years and worth every penny.

However - i'll want him to have a clearer view of what he wants to do when he finishes than I did. Yes, learning for the sake of learning can be great, and I'm all for the betterment of mankind.. but one has to earn a crust in life.

patchwork_cat

Slightly off topic, but I am very concerned at how many Uni's are coming out with the £9K fees. I feared it, but hoped that it might remain Oxbridge that charged the full £9K, but just heard that Leeds Met are charging £9K and that a lot of the Russell Group are also doing so. Out of 16 so far stated what they are charging 13 want the full £9K. Does anyone else think that it will be the death nell for some.

Blue22

clearingout wrote: »

but to employment rates justify NOT studying an area you are good at or interested in?

Not if the student is studying for the 'enjoyment' and satisfaction of studying. But if they are studying with the expectation of entry into a specific career, then the outcome of previous students must surely be a consideration?