Should I discourage my kids from going to Uni?

Lunar_Eclipse

Pigpen - did you go to university?

I totally agree with the sentiment of not encouraging one's children to go to university if all it amounts to is a complete waste of time and a pile of debt, but honestly, that is very rarely, if ever the case with anyone who goes. Even those that ultimately fail their degree, in a mickey mouse subject, have probably learnt some incredibly valuable life lessons in the process, whilst still in a relatively safe environment. It's a bit different once a mortgage, job, partner and children come onto the scene.

I went to university and am fully expecting my children to do the same. By the time they graduate, I think a postgraduate/MBA might well be the norm for the brightest kids (akin to the USA). Obviously I am hoping they choose well respected degrees and universities, but time will tell and I respect their preferences. It's their life. Mine are (exceptionally) bright and well rounded kids, so if they work hard I'm optimistic that their results and personalities will secure them adequate employment or provide them with good entrepreneurial skills to be their own boss. Being realistic, I half expect one of them to opt out in favour of doing their own thing.

To some degree, it's all a gamble. We worry too much about our kids now, don't we? As in generally, not directed at anyone personally.

The_One_Who

poet123 wrote: »

Yes, they could have gone on to to a Phd, if they were of the mindset of the perennial student, which some undoubtedly are. Anything to delay to the onset of work in some cases, and of course that is their prerogative, if they are spending their own money....often though, they are not, they are supported by hard working parents, who deny themselves to fund their offspring's whims.

In my experience the A levels only come back into play if the degree is not a mainstream one...which brings us full circle.

Whilst I don't agree with a parent funding a PhD, if that's what they want to do who am I to say not to. The state does provide funding for them, although for some subjects it's few and far between and very hotly contested. For others (like the sciences) it's slightly more available. Most are self-funded. I think few people do a PhD just to prolong being a student, but I don't know for sure.

In my experience A Levels, or rather their UCAS point equivalent, is asked for as a way to narrow down the pool of candidates. This does tend to be in graduate schemes though, which are definitely not the be all and end all.

ViolaLass

poet123 wrote: »

Yes, they could have gone on to to a Phd, if they were of the mindset of the perennial student, which some undoubtedly are.

Or if they'd wanted to add to the sum total of mankind's knowledge about a particular area. Research is a pretty useful thing, you know?

I think you are incredibly negative about the whole thing. Yes, some students spend a lot of time at uni drinking and not a lot of time studying, but doesn't that say more about the person than the validity of the course or institution they chose?

Lunar_Eclipse

pigpen wrote: »

And really it is just a continuation of school.. with extra homework

Completely disagree, only from my own personal experience.

University is nothing like school. I would say the homework is probably far, far less than that required doing 3-5 A levels, but to excel the student really needs to take the helm and learn their subject in a completely unique and self directed way, choosing to put in countless hours that most students don't realise is required. Plus you also have the skills associated with independent living: budgetting, household chores, banking etc that usually far exceed those applied whilst in school, living at home.

Academically speaking, in the same way that pupils who end up going to university will usually be aiming for A*'s in their GCSEs, a 1st class honours degree should be the equivalent goal at university (which takes a lot of hard work and intellectual application), with a 2:1 being an acceptable back up.

poet123

ViolaLass wrote: »

Or if they'd wanted to add to the sum total of mankind's knowledge about a particular area. Research is a pretty useful thing, you know?

I think you are incredibly negative about the whole thing. Yes, some students spend a lot of time at uni drinking and not a lot of time studying, but doesn't that say more about the person than the validity of the course or institution they chose?

I think I am a realist. In my immediate family we all have degrees, and post grad quals too, but in subjects which furthered careers. My point is that a Phd in Beatles study et al is an indulgence, will it further mankind? not imo.

I don't *think* I have commented on excessive drinking...par for the course for students ime, and all part of life's rich tapestry.

My kids have friends who are doing doctorates, not from any great sense of changing the world, but more from an apathy toward working...and putting off that day for as long as possible. Mine were told we would fund undergrad degrees, and help towards Masters, but as it happened they wanted to work and study for post grad quals part time.

Three down, one to go;)

lessonlearned

Very interesting thread.

University is nothing like school and it's certainly not a waste of time. It is life enhancing and often an important stepping stone to the adult world, just the same way that a decent apprenticeship would be for learning a trade.

There are relatively few "Mickey Mouse" courses anyway, it's perhaps that some courses are not seen as "commercially viable", ie they don't guarantee work in the way that medicine or dentistry might.

To the uninitiated my own course, Visual Cultures, might well come under such a category. Some might think it was merely watching films, looking at paintings etc - something to dabble in as a hobby. In fact real intellectual vigour was required. It involved history, politics, psychology, science, English Literature etc. In fact the course itself required the undergraduate to start with a very broad and sound educational base, coupled with an enquiring mind and the ability to really "think". A lot of my coursemates found it very difficult.

Regarding PhD's etc - although these are traditionally thought of as purely academic research more often than not they do have practical applications.

For example, DS1 has a PhD in Maths and yes it is rocket science!!! His work now involves research into alternative fuels - in today's world of energy shortages an absolute must.

DS2 has a degree in Media Production. Mickey Mouse? - absolutely not - he is a talented film maker. Yes he "only" works in a garden centre but they've already spotted his management potential and he is being "groomed" for promotion. He is also setting up a photography business as a sideline.

Please let your children decide their own futures - they are the ones who are going to have to work until they are 68 after all. They will still "use" their degrees even if their work path seems totally unrelated. A good education is for life and no-one can take your degree away from you once you've got it.

When I left school (many moons ago) my parents stopped me from taking on a trainee-ship as a journalist with a local newspaper, (something my English teacher had set up) and forced me into secretarial college. I hated office work with a passion. I always regretted not training as a journalist and my parents also came to bitterly regret their high handed decision.

BTW I did my degree as a mature student, thanks to a very supportive OH. Now retired from a lucrative career as a successful New Homes Sales Negotiator I am now my OH's carer and am currently setting up a small sideline business as an antiques dealer - helped by my knowledge of art, design, fashion, furniture, architecture, film memorabilia etc - "Visual Cultures").

wintersunshine

ViolaLass wrote: »

Are you really comparing university with getting run over? Isn't the point that the former is/can be desirable and the latter isn't?

There are lots of undesirable sides to Uni - like the amount of drinking that goes on. Many parents worry about their kids drinking at Uni. One of my friend's sons has taken to drinking every night. Her and her hubby barely drink at all. She is a social worker and he works for a charity.

Watching your kids get in to debt and turned in to drunks is another side of the "UK Uni Experience" it's not all about expanding your mind is it?

ViolaLass

wintersunshine wrote: »

There are lots of undesirable sides to Uni - like the amount of drinking that goes on. Many parents worry about their kids drinking at Uni. One of my friend's sons has taken to drinking every night. Her and her hubby barely drink at all. She is a social worker and he works for a charity.

Watching your kids get in to debt and turned in to drunks is another side of the "UK Uni Experience"

Come on, are you seriously saying you would discourage your children from going to university because of the drinking? Again, don't you think that would say more about your children than about the usefulness of the degree or the institution?

I had a great time at university and it didn't involve alcohol. This was my responsibility and no one else's.

If you think your children wouldn't make the most of the experience, blame them, not the university or the concept.

wintersunshine

ViolaLass wrote: »

Come on, are you seriously saying you would discourage your children from going to university because of the drinking?

No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that not everything about Uni is desirable. Debt and drink is another side of the British University experience these days, they are different faces of the same coin.

Oldernotwiser

pigpen wrote: »

by the number of people who studied it before and are jobless or doing a degree in something useful or working in something completely unrelated.. it isn't difficult. the universities hold this information.
.

Some degrees are vocational and some are not - that doesn't mean that non vocational degrees are worthless. Education is about so much more than equipping people for better jobs and it's unfortunate that utilitarian ideas like yours have become so prevalent amongst our young people.

If we returned to a system where HE was only for those who could genuinely benefit from it we might be able to support it more generously but as long as it has to make up for falling standards at secondary level we'll be in a situation where young people get into debt to achieve the level they did at 18 in previous generations.

That's the scandal.