Parking Charge Notice (Cornwall)

taffy056

rupturedduck wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys, it is greatly appreciated. I apologise if the thread was inappropriate.

Nothing at all wrong with the thread, you asked a question and got the correct info from almost everyone

sleepdriving

I was recently issued a "PCN" by the same company in Cornwall - so I thought I'd chime in. I bought a valid ticket at full price, didn't overstay, but the company allege my ticket was "face down" and are alleging breach of contract, which I strongly dispute.

The general advice seems to be ignore ALL of their correspondence, but nobody has said why. Here is a short summary (please note - in this instance I believe I have a strong case):

1. In my case, it was private land. For private land, their only remedy is to enforce the terms of the contract by issuing a breach of contract claim in the County Court (small claims court), winning a judgement in their favour and winning an award. The burden is on them to establish a prima facie case for breach of contract.

2. The £95 "fine" is in their terms and conditions displayed on signs around the car park. But remember, to enforce the terms of the contract, they must win a breach of contract claim against you in the County Court.

3. Unless you have given them this information (tip: don't), they don't know your name or address. They have to apply to the DVLA for this.

4. From what I've heard, if you don't pay up within the 28 days, they will start sending you threatening letters. They may even instruct a Debt Collection Agency to chase you with even more threatening letters. However, if you analyse this from a legal standpoint, they are threatening you to pay up under the terms of the contract. But remember, they have still not proved a breach of contract in the County Court or have an enforceable County Court judgement against you. If you are disputing the alleged breach of contract, you are within your rights not to pay.

5. In my case, the company have so far made no effort to set out a clear legal basis for the breach of contract or produced any evidence to support this. Personally, without this, I am not prepared to pay any money or enter into negotiations for an out of court settlement (although, at a later stage, you may wish to consider making a without prejudice offer - but this needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis).

6. The rear of the "PCN" mentions an "appeals" process. From a legal standpoint, what are you appealing against? The company are alleging you are in breach of contract. If they want to enforce that contract, they must issue a claim against you in the County Court (where you will have the opportunity to set out your defence). There is no legal basis to their "appeals" process, it is not independent and there are no procedural safeguards in place. There is also the risk that they may use this as an information gathering exercise. Personally, I will not be entering into the "appeals" process.

I really wish more people understood their rights before blindly paying these "fines". Hopefully this has been of some help.

muckybutt

It makes no difference if the ticket was face up or face down, you paid the appropriate sum for the service of parking on their car park, therefore they have no loss and have no legal claim to anymore money.

Ignore all their garbage letters they will send you, it just another ploy to tempt you into giving in and paying them, but if you follow advice and do not contact them then you like the rest of us will end up better off than them cos you will have kept your money.

sleepdriving

muckybutt wrote: »

It makes no difference if the ticket was face up or face down, you paid the appropriate sum for the service of parking on their car park, therefore they have no loss and have no legal claim to anymore money.

Ignore all their garbage letters they will send you, it just another ploy to tempt you into giving in and paying them, but if you follow advice and do not contact them then you like the rest of us will end up better off than them cos you will have kept your money.

Exactly. They cannot have a successful breach of contract claim without showing that they have suffered a loss. In my case, they will have a very hard time establishing this in front of a County Court judge. What is their loss when I have purchased a ticket for the appropriate sum?

It's highly unlikely that it'll ever go this far, but I'm experienced in County Court advocacy, so I have no problem in seeing this though if necessary.

I will ignore their letters.

muckybutt

sleepdriving wrote: »

Exactly. They cannot have a successful breach of contract claim without showing that they have suffered a loss. In my case, they will have a very hard time establishing this in front of a County Court judge. What is their loss when I have purchased a ticket for the appropriate sum?

It's highly unlikely that it'll ever go this far, but I'm experienced in County Court advocacy, so I have no problem in seeing this though if necessary.

I will ignore their letters.

Have a read of this http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56

sleepdriving

muckybutt wrote: »

Have a read of this

Thanks for the link - I've read the guide in full and it's VERY good.

In particular, Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. v. New Garage and Motor Co. Ltd. (1915) and Ford Motor Co. v. Armstrong (1915). UCTA (and it's associated consumer legislation) is also applicable and very useful.

Going back to the original poster (rupturedduck), it would appear that technically, the only loss the company have suffered (and could therefore recover) is the cost of the 30 minutes of parking which rupturedduck overstayed.

To the original poster: DO NOT entertain their "appeals" process whatsoever. To lodge an appeal, they specifically ask you to provide the "Drivers Name & Address" - which is basically self-incrimination. Note the difference between the registered keeper of the vehicle and the driver. Under NO circumstances should you tell them the name of the driver.

Coupon-mad

Seen the Watchdog link as well?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=51193

No worries about ignoring a private parking charge - we have almost all done it, me included.

sleepdriving

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Seen the Watchdog link as well?

No - I hadn't seen this. Very entertaining.

Btw - it only took me one Google search to find this forum thread and its saved me £95 and hopefully the original poster £95 as well. Thanks to everyone on this forum - your help is much appreciated.

rupturedduck

Nothing through the post yet. Tick tock tick tock (not that I'll do anything should it arrive)

Thank you for all the advice, help and support

HO87

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

Ah Cornwall.....it's different to the rest of the UK that's why none of the stickys or hundreds of other identical queries/posts apply.

Correct. A Duchy extraterritorial to England and, argue as you might, the right to veto Westminster legislation as it might affect the stannaries (set out in the Charter of Pardon, granted by Henry VII) has never been withdrawn or rescinded and remains on the statute book.[/rant]

Sorry for the hijack!