TUPE and changes - redundancy!!

sugarbabe-47

Hi All

I have TUPE'd to another Company with a promise of T&C's remaining the same, however there is rumour and hearsay that from April 01st (when I start for the new Company) that there is going to be a massive re-organisation, which I can see. This has been happening across all the Sites that have TUPE'd over. Me and my staff are all worried and we all feel that we have been *duped* into believing our jobs are safe. The concern I have is - Garden Leave has been mentioned. We have not had any meetings with the new Company as yet. I have trawled all the websites re garden leave and have read the ACAS site. We are not in a union and are not union recognised.
Also it has been said hours will change too. Can this be done legally? I also fear that I would be taking a step back from Management to be more *hands on* resulting in job losses. I have worked extremely hard to reach this Position within my current employer, now I believe my job and duties are going to change!!
I have asked the new Company questions but am getting nowhere, even when I have asked who will be paying the redundancies if and when it happens!! I cant seem to get hold of anyone in my Company and when I do they have been very vague with their answers.:mad:

So if anyone has any advice or has been through this I would appreciate some help. This is a worrying time for us all.:(

Sorry for the long winded post but I am very worried for my job and for my staff. We all have long service, some with 10 years.
Sugar x

SJ1

Under TUPE they HAVE to give you the same employment terms and contract so far so good. What you do tend to see happen is that shortly afterwards a 'reorganisation' is undertaken and there are job losses as you have pointed out. This also (almost always) seems to work in favour of the taking over party, so where I have seen it a lot of the jobs of the company taken over are lost. They will have to put in place a redundancy programme if this does happen and jobs will be assessed etc. It will lead to a lot of uncertainty so I feel for you if this does happen.

Why are you concerned about garden leave - this would be fully paid so you would be paid for your contract term, you wouldn' t be allowed to work for a competitor within that time though - is that your worry? Not sure I get the concern here.....

Not sure that I am able to answer whether they can change things. I didn't think that they could do this to be honest, I think you would have to sign up to the new hours etc legally but honestly, I don't know.... Maybe someone else can help with that.

They will be vague, they probably know more than they are letting on but possibly less than you think they know. In my experience they never say anything until it's a done deal.

SJ

getmore4less

I am suprised you are suprised this is very common.

You need to decide if there is a place for you in the new organisation.

Also need to establish fairly early what the terms will be, especialy if the old company has enhanced terms and the new company does not want to give them.

The new company pays the redundancies but often the deals are structured so the old company effectivly pays but this does not effect you.

If 20 or more are to go then there needs to be elections of reps.

read up about the redundancy process.
start with this and search for more info.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=747

sugarbabe-47

Hi and thank you for the replies. I understand that there will be job losses and redundancies however I am concerned that this will all be done legally. I fear that we may all be promised things verbally to sort of keep us quiet, and things are changing daily. I appreciate that we need to have meetings with the new Company to discuss proposed changes but I am also concerned as SJI states it will be a done deal before they contact me and my staff. Everything is so vague at this moment in time for us all. Surely our jobs/hours/duties etc should have been sorted out by now??? We start next Friday with the new Company, so what are we supposed to do? turn up for work at our normal working times?? then do what??
I understand all my staff are worried too and I can't reassure them as I don't have any answers for them - its so frustrating having to work in these conditions.
Thank you for all your help and support - appreciated.
Sugar x

Peelerfart

In the abscence of any firm instruction to the contrary,I would keep doing what I'm doing until I'm told not to.

So yes,turn up at the same time and do the same job you have done.

When I was TUPE'd that is what we were told to do by our new employer.

Sounds like they were a bit more organised than your new lot

getmore4less

AIUI legaly the new company cannot make any plans untill after the TUPE.

Thats why they are staying quiet. You carry on doing the job you laways have to start with , nothing should change.

In practive they are making the plans but cannot tell you anything untill the TUPE is complete otherwise you have clear evidence any dismisal is connected to the TUPE.

So they can start talking after the TUPE, thats when the review starts and consultation begins.

Best thing is to be well prepared on the process and procedures so you know how they should be doing things once the consultation starts.

You may have to put No1 first and any loyalty to the team may have to go but beware the your job is save but the team has to go technique.

sugarbabe-47

Thanks peeps....yes I am thinking of no 1, but these people I have worked with for over 10 years and I appreciate what you are both saying thats why I am looking at things legally before we get hit with the impending news!! I am their Manager and they are looking at me for answers etc and for me this is difficult at this time.. I have been told (verbally) my job is safe (But I can see me being downgraded to allow for job losses like I said before, more hands on Manager..so my duties will change and possibly my hours too. I am so gutted that after all we have provided for the Customers that this is the way we are being treated, but on the plus side I still may have a job....hey ho

Sugar x

grimsalve

I've got a similar thing happening to me over the next few months - I was informed earlier in the week that my role was "in scope" for being outsourced (I'm feeling a bit paranoid about it at the moment though - there's about a dozen people in the team but only my job has been included). There's around 200 people from other teams involved though so we're going through some sort of discussion process or something like that anyway - I'm guessing this is part of the TUPE rules? I think my employer is just finding a way to possibly remove staff without having to pay for redundancies, but does TUPE provide any protection to employees anyway? ie. one you've been outsourced could you be made redundant straight away?

grimsalve

sugarbabe-47 wrote: »

I am their Manager and they are looking at me for answers etc and for me this is difficult at this time.. I have been told (verbally) my job is safe (But I can see me being downgraded to allow for job losses like I said before, more hands on Manager..so my duties will change and possibly my hours too.

By the way, that's what happened to me a couple of years ago - I was team leader, then the team was merged with another (and it's really difficult knowing what to say to the team when this is going on), then the team was "downsized", my role was changed and I was no longer the manager, and now I'm being outsourced.

sugarbabe-47

Hi Grimsalve, I cant answer your questions I'm afraid as we are going through this now I would like to think that TUPE rules protects us and we all have this in writing -TERMS,CONDITIONS REMAIN THE SAME- but in reading my original contract we can be moved to other *sites* - and we have to offer *flexibility* - It is a legal minefield employment law and I do not understand most of it, but it looks like *restructure* WILL take place - redundancies have been mentioned and we are ALL on a 12 week probationary period!!!! So I guess they can change hours/roles etc within the law. Like my role can and possibly will be *downsized* and its so soul destroying when you have worked your butt off to get where you are now and then have the carpet pulled from under your feet, so to speak. I am digging my heels in here as I will hold out for redundancy, and just at the stage waiting for the *meetings* to start. I understand all this will have been arranged/sorted out behind the scenes and I believe that TUPE law cannot protect us in this instance. It is a very very difficult time not just for us but for many many employess and its upsetting too.
I will post here for advice and updating my/our situation as I want to be prepared for the worst (and I can see it happening)! Being in the know does help and this site is invaluable for help and advice
Hope you are ok though.
Take care
Sugar x

grimsalve

sugarbabe-47 wrote: »

I will post here for advice and updating my/our situation as I want to be prepared for the worst (and I can see it happening)! Being in the know does help and this site is invaluable for help and advice

Please keep us updated, I think it helps if you talk about it and also it will help other people who are facing similar problems. Unfortunately, I think it's becoming a very common experience.