Bus passes again

*Chattie*

jojo1964 wrote: »

The scheme costs £1 billion a year, and as a bus driver seeing things firsthand, the rise in use by people who use these has been huge, in particular with people using them to travel one stop, a distance of a few hundred yards, and i feel this will herald eventual restrictions on the use of these passes, also the amount of apparently fit younger people who have these passes seems on the increase, i understand that for many the pass is a lifeline, but feel an annual fee, or a limit on the amount of travel is on the cards.

Where do you see younger people using an over 60s bus pass? Considering in England the eligible age is rising with pension age I would suggest its going to be the other way round and what difference does it make if a user is fit or not?

datostar

*Chattie* wrote: »

Where do you see younger people using an over 60s bus pass? Considering in England the eligible age is rising with pension age I would suggest its going to be the other way round and what difference does it make if a user is fit or not?

They're probably using disability passes. Not all disabilities are visible and they are issued to people with mental illnesses if they are on other benefits.

*Chattie*

margaretclare wrote: »

It must make a huge difference depending on where you live. Chesky has illustrated this very well. If I lived in London I wouldn't have a car at all, I'd use public transport all the time.

I agree with jojo that this scheme costs a huge amount. What I dislike about these little freebies is that someone ultimately has to pay, and as DH and I are still taxpayers, that must include us. So, why is it assumed that we are poor enough to need a free bus, a winter fuel hand-out and a free TV licence, yet are rich enough to pay income tax? It is the stereotyping and the unjustified assumptions about us and our lifestyle that I dislike the most.

The fact that I had that free bus pass for 5 years and in that time used it only once, should explain why I thought this was worth discussing again. The free pass no doubt is a lifeline to some, maybe even a majority. Not to us. I would rather it went to someone who genuinely needs it and can use it, rather than being sent out willy-nilly.

so why did you go to the bother of sending for the bus pass five years ago when you say you had only used a bus a few times in the previous ten years?

All pensioners are tax-payers should their income be above the level so please don't assume that you are the only tax payers and please dont you patronise people by suggesting that you as a tax payer should make the decision as to who you think genuinely needs a bus pass.

DebtHater

datostar wrote: »

They're probably using disability passes. Not all disabilities are visible and they are issued to people with mental illnesses if they are on other benefits.

I would agree generally, but there are the odd one or two exceptions.

As an ex-bus driver, I saw alot of the elderly cards. A funny story, we called them "twirly" cards, a shortened version of 'too early', because of the amount of elderly people who would be at bus stops at 8:45am and would ask "Am I too early driver......"

Anyway, back to topic. People seem to be of the idea that the Government pay a certain amount of money each and every time the card is used, most people think its between 80p-£1 that goes to the bus company. This is not true. The Government have "ear-marked" a specific amount of money to allocate to bus companies across the country that accept these cards. The amount of cards that each company take are logged and sent in to the local Transport Integration teams at the county council offices. They then distribute the funds at several points during the year. But there is a "maximum" cap that a company can claim.
Say for instance that First Group take 10,000 concession passengers in one area in one month. Now say Stagecoach Group take 20,000 concession passengers in that same area in that same month. If the County Council have only set aside £10,000 for that local area for the whole month, then that £10,000 will need to be distributed. Not forgetting the grants and other additional funding that the bus companies get, so it neither saves money nor costs extra regardless of who uses their passes.

The disability passes are somewhat taken for granted. The disability passes are exactly the same as the elderly concession cards, just a different colour. They allow exactly the same travel.
Now take this as an example, a mid 20s male got aboard my bus with a disability pass. He was well-spoken, generally well behaved, showed no obvious signs of mental illness. No physical illness, judging by the way he ran up the double decker stairs. He then sat upstairs drinking from a can of beer, and had to be reminded not to drink alcohol on the bus. He only travelled a short distance, to the local pub. I know we cant judge someone who carries a disability pass, but it seemed that he was taking the system for granted.
However, that said, there are alot of mentally ill people who would jump on my bus quite frequently who use the service as is intended - to enable them to be more independent. And that, in my mind, is worth every penny.

Biggles

DebtHater wrote: »

He was well-spoken, generally well behaved, showed no obvious signs of mental illness. No physical illness, judging by the way he ran up the double decker stairs.

We are fortunate indeed to have bus drivers who are such excellent judges of health, whether mental or physical, and whether obvious to the casual observer or not.

DebtHater

Biggles wrote: »

We are fortunate indeed to have bus drivers who are such excellent judges of health, whether mental or physical, and whether obvious to the casual observer or not.

And may I suggest you go and buy a pair of glasses, because you obviously didnt read my post properly.

I also stated "I know we cant judge someone who carries a disability pass, but it seemed that he was taking the system for granted."

margaretclare

*Chattie* wrote: »

so why did you go to the bother of sending for the bus pass five years ago when you say you had only used a bus a few times in the previous ten years?

All pensioners are tax-payers should their income be above the level so please don't assume that you are the only tax payers and please dont you patronise people by suggesting that you as a tax payer should make the decision as to who you think genuinely needs a bus pass.

Why did I apply for it 5 years ago? No idea. I suppose I thought I might use it. In 2006, from memory, I wasn't able to drive because we had a manual car at that time and I was waiting for revision of hip replacement - the left leg had become so much shorter that I couldn't reach the clutch pedal. Subsequently we changed to an automatic, after surgery I did a couple of refresher driving lessons and regained my ability to drive. Without the surgery and until we changed the car, the bus would have been my only option. It didn't turn out that way. Experience teaches.

Catching the bus from where I live is not just a matter of hopping on it - there's a walk to the bus stop and, in one direction, there's nowhere to sit down. So standing and waiting in the cold - as we did on the one occasion that pass got used - is tiring and painful. Going the other way, there is a seat and a proper shelter.

I have said more than once that what other people choose to do is up to them. I have had no intention to 'patronise' anybody.

I still say that it makes no sense taking tax off people and then assuming they need little freebies. I suppose I really dislike the freebies because they have been cynical vote-catchers.

Regarding the £10 so-called Christmas bonus, this is historical, goes way back to the early 1970s. There were no other freebies at the time, but £10 was about equivalent to another week's state pension and so was worth having. I recall my mother being ecstatic about 'that nice Mr Heath' - it was his idea.

horsechestnut

Don't forget that a buss pass can also be used as proof of identity; to prove that you are over 60 and eligible for various discounts at theatre, shops attractions etc.

seven-day-weekend

margaretclare wrote: »

Why did I apply for it 5 years ago? No idea. I suppose I thought I might use it. In 2006, from memory, I wasn't able to drive because we had a manual car at that time and I was waiting for revision of hip replacement - the left leg had become so much shorter that I couldn't reach the clutch pedal. Subsequently we changed to an automatic, after surgery I did a couple of refresher driving lessons and regained my ability to drive. Without the surgery and until we changed the car, the bus would have been my only option. It didn't turn out that way. Experience teaches.

Catching the bus from where I live is not just a matter of hopping on it - there's a walk to the bus stop and, in one direction, there's nowhere to sit down. So standing and waiting in the cold - as we did on the one occasion that pass got used - is tiring and painful. Going the other way, there is a seat and a proper shelter.

I have said more than once that what other people choose to do is up to them. I have had no intention to 'patronise' anybody.

I still say that it makes no sense taking tax off people and then assuming they need little freebies. I suppose I really dislike the freebies because they have been cynical vote-catchers.

Regarding the £10 so-called Christmas bonus, this is historical, goes way back to the early 1970s. There were no other freebies at the time, but £10 was about equivalent to another week's state pension and so was worth having. I recall my mother being ecstatic about 'that nice Mr Heath' - it was his idea.

My mum, an ardent and vocal Socialist all her life, could not quite believe that it was a Tory 'toff' Prime Minister who had sanctioned this!:rotfl::rotfl:

(She quite liked John Major though, because he was working class, although she always said he had 'lost his way' joining the Conservative party. :rotfl:)

Errata

margaretclare wrote: »

I have
I still say that it makes no sense taking tax off people and then assuming they need little freebies. I suppose I really dislike the freebies because they have been cynical vote-catchers.

.

Concessionary bus travel has been given to both tax paying and non-tax paying pensioners since the end of WW2. So that's a lot of governments of various persuasioins cynically catching votes.