Part time worker just made redundant

Raksha

You can ask if you can accompany your daughter, but they have the option to say no. Strictly speaking, anyone accompanying her can only advise her and take notes, they can't speak on her behalf.

Good luck, HTH

ahall41116

Thanks - will keep you posted

ash

KiKi

Just wanted to add (on the off-chance it comes up and so that your DD knows the difference): a written statement of particulars isn't the same as a contract. Simply by turning up to work each week she is accepting that a contract of employment is in place, regardless of its content, and even though she doesn't know what's in it!

Whether she signed a contract or not is also irrelevant, as she continued to work there for four years. So she should absolutely talk about the written particulars which are a legal requirement, but not pursue anything about having a contract, signed or otherwise - it won't make a difference to their legal stance (assuming they know what they're talking about).

Sorry if you know that already, just wanted to add in case they start confusing your daughter!

HTH
KiKi

ahall41116

Kiki

That makes so much sense. The nice lady at acas tried to tell me the same but the difference didn't sink in!

Also, the usdaw rep who my daughter works with at a large well-known supermarket has suggested she clRifies the informal nature of the meeting.

If it's informal, why offer union involvement. If it's formal, 48hr notice is too short.

Anyone wish to clarify?

Ash

anamenottaken

ahall41116 wrote: »

Kiki
Also, the usdaw rep who my daughter works with at a large well-known supermarket has suggested she clRifies the informal nature of the meeting.

If it's informal, why offer union involvement. If it's formal, 48hr notice is too short.

Not a comment on informal v formal but about the 48-hour notice. It's not too short if people are prepared and available.

The employer has offered to re-arrange if it is not convenient. So, if it isn't convenient for an USDAW representative to attend, it is simple to get in touch and offer alternative times.

KiKi

ahall41116 wrote: »

Also, the usdaw rep who my daughter works with at a large well-known supermarket has suggested she clRifies the informal nature of the meeting.

If it's informal, why offer union involvement. If it's formal, 48hr notice is too short.

Anyone wish to clarify?

Ash

I would never take 'informal' to mean that by a company that can't even issue contracts or written particulars. I would go in armed with the right information and assume it is a meeting that will be noted, where anything your daughter says 'informally' is taken down and used in the future if they are trying to get out of fulfilling their duties.

Either this is a formal meeting - or they don't really know what they're talking about but heard they're supposed to allow union representation at meetings.

My main concern for your DD is that by making this sound informal ("2pm at the caf!") they will get her to believe that it was just a temp contract and she's owed nothing.

In fairness, they may have genuinely felt she was a temporary worker on a temp contract - but then they should have said so. However, the fact that your daughter never asked for annual leave *could* suggest that she *also* accepted it was a temporary contract. The only card she can play here is the fact that she was young and didn't realise her entitlement to holiday until she started looking into it after being made redundant.

She should, however, stress the fact that she's been made redundant (not that she 'left').

She might not get everything she's asked for, but go in for everything, and be prepared to negotiate down. I'd realistically hope for redundancy and pay in lieu - I'd see anything more as a bonus. However, if they agree to the redundancy (GET THIS IN WRITING) then they are accepting (in writing!) that she was not a temp member of staff, which then suggests liability for holiday pay etc. Depends how difficult you want to make this and what your daughter wants from it all.

Sounds like they're either going to be very well informed, or not know their stuff at all!

KiKi

Savvy_Sue

anamenottaken wrote: »

If they want to say she was "casual" but were still paying her under PAYE, then just use 10.07% of the time worked in the holiday year.

I thought it was 12.07%?

ahall41116

erm, not sure!

ash

anamenottaken

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I thought it was 12.07%?

Yes 12.07%

ahall41116

my daughter has been told the meeting is informal, only her employer present taking minutes (?!)

it looks like the union rep cannot attend, so her employer is accepting a friend to join as witness (still forbidding me!)

if i joined the union, could i act as rep?

I have made the following notes. please feel free to amend. the meeting is at 5.30 today.

You have an Implied contract of employment.
This contract implies a Duty of Mutual trust and confidence: you agree to turn up to work on time, do ask you are asked, in return for being treated fairly. This contract was breeched when you received an email advising of your redundancy.
You do not have a written statement of your terms and conditions of employment.
This would stipulate your employment status, hours of work, Holiday period, disciplinary procedure, lay-off procedure, redundancy process etc.
Without this, statutory minimums prevail. As you have nothing to stipulate you are a casual worker, there is no reason to assume you are not a casual worker.
Notice Period
You have worked for the fisheries for 3 full years, and this gives you a 3 week notice period, which can be paid in lieu.
1 week for each year (between 2 and 12 yrs employed) 3 weeks
Payment in lieu of notice 3 x 30 £90
Holiday Pay
You are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks of holiday pay (your worked week – can be an average of the last 12 weeks worked) per year, and as you do not have a written statement detailing when the holiday year starts and finishes, the year is based on your start date. This is believed to be April 6th 2007 (Easter weekend) 5.6 weeks holiday per year. 5.6 x 30 £168
Redundancy payment
As you have worked 3 complete years, you are entitled to 0.5 weeks’ pay per completed year.
0.5 weeks per completed year. 1.5 x 30 £45
Temporary lay-off work
As you do not have a written statement, which can stipulate you can be laid off without pay, it isn’t unreasonable to expect payment for when you were laid off.
Your last week worked was: 27/11/10 You were made redundant on: 15th March. Weeks lay off: 15 Full pay 15 x 30 £450
£423
Or
Statutory Guarantee pay
2 weeks per 3 month period 4/12/10 26/2/11 - 2 x 30 £60
5/3/11 – 15/3/11 – 2 x 30 £60
£753