Who are we?

macaque_2

julieq wrote: »

As with all good demagoguery, this is based on a half truth, yes there are more stringent health and safety regulations, yes it arguably has gone a little bit too far, but no it doesn't indicate a loss of moral fibre.

I don't know how you'd pin health and safety on multiculturism or political correctness either, it comes from a desire not to get injured unnecessarily at work. I think that in extremis we'd all like to think we'd sacrifice our lives for the wider society, but it's a little bit more difficult than that to actually do it.

Moral fibre has not dissapeared Mrs Julieq, it has just been subverted by multi culturalism and polical correctness.

We are a tribal species and the reason the Japanese are well adjusted because they have retained their tribal identity. They don't shout about it, but they know who they are, and they don't dish out Japanese Passports like food stamps.

In this country, a liberal elite have undermined tribal identity. Without identity, people become selfish, greedy and lost. Social engineers from the liberal left congratulate themselves on their quest for a multi cultural global paradise in GB. What we have in reality is a bunch ethnic ghettos and a powder keg for the future. Safety and Jediism have now overtaken the CofE as the dominant religions. It is OK to mock the Christians but any comment about other religions is likely to land you in court on a race hatred charge.

Immigration is fine but like all things it should be in moderation. Unfortunately, Gordon Brown opened the flood gates for the most cynical of reasons and used the weapon of political correctness to silence his objectors.

The Japanese have shown the extent of their moral fibre over the past few weeks. Moral fibre is a characteristic found in people who know who their tribe is.

StevieJ

You do write some crap.

We are a tribal species and the reason the Japanese are well adjusted because they have retained their tribal identity. They don't shout about it, but they know who they are, and they don't dish out Japanese Passports like food stamps

Pensioner numbers growing
For Japan that is the problem - by 2055 the government is predicting pensioners will be around half the population.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

The Japanese have shown the extent of their moral fibre over the past few weeks. Moral fibre is a characteristic found in people who know who their tribe is.

I agree with Stevie. You do write some utter crap.

macaque_2

StevieJ wrote: »

You do write some crap.

It is permitted to make a point without being abusive.

You have raised the question of Japan's aging population. I agree it is serious problem.

Is flooding a country with young immigrants to service an aging population fair on future generations (immigrants grow old as well) or fair on the immigrants themselves.

Should we be bringing in millions immigrants when we have 9.5 million people of working age economically inactive?

macaque_2

Cleaver wrote: »

I agree with Stevie. You do write some utter crap.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

<another picture of a monkey>

You can post as many pictures of monkeys as you like simian-boy, but you won't be convincing me that the dignity, bravery, stoicism, pride and courage of the Japanese people is somehow down to the fact that the country doesn't have a high level of immigration. In fact, that's quite an insulting thing to say about the Japanese people.

macaque wrote: »

Should we be bringing in millions immigrants when we have 9.5 million people of working age economically inactive?

This line of argument continues to confuse me. It's really simple - the best people for the job tend to get the job. The most suitable, enthusiastic and qualified people get the work. I reckon, deep down, that most companies in the UK would prefer, if possible, to employee UK people. That's just natural. So the fact that many immigrants are employed in jobs says quite a lot about the attitude and competence of our 9.5 million "economically inactive". I.e., most companies would prefer to employ an enthusiastic, hard working foreign person over a lazy, disinterested UK national. If that's your two choices of course.

Cleaver

wageslave wrote: »

I think the monkey meant (or at least I hope he meant) that society had become so fragmented, so isolated that we had forgotten who and what we are. And a tribe is just a bigger family.

I think we're reading a bit too much in his words. I get the distinct impression he just doesn't like foreigners very much.

StevieJ

Cleaver wrote: »

I think we're reading a bit too much in his words. I get the distinct impression he just doesn't like foreigners very much.

Unless they are Japanese

macaque_2

Cleaver wrote: »

You can post as many pictures of monkeys as you like simian-boy, but you won't be convincing me that the dignity, bravery, stoicism, pride and courage of the Japanese people is somehow down to the fact that the country doesn't have a high level of immigration. In fact, that's quite an insulting thing to say about the Japanese people.

This line of argument continues to confuse me. It's really simple - the best people for the job tend to get the job. The most suitable, enthusiastic and qualified people get the work. I reckon, deep down, that most companies in the UK would prefer, if possible, to employee UK people. That's just natural. So the fact that many immigrants are employed in jobs says quite a lot about the attitude and competence of our 9.5 million "economically inactive". I.e., most companies would prefer to employ an enthusiastic, hard working foreign person over a lazy, disinterested UK national. If that's your two choices of course.

Chill out Cleaver.

My point is not about immigration (but immigration comes into it). It is about identity. I travel a lot and what I see in the UK psyche these days is disturbingly different to almost any other country I visit. Even my arch enemy Gordon Brown tried to restore some sense of national identity (albeit after the damage was done). And when he said 'British jobs for British people' it was as though he had said a 4 letter word. What's wrong with British jobs for British people? The Brits have been beating themselves up for so long, they don't know who they are anymore.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

My point is not about immigration (but immigration comes into it). It is about identity. I travel a lot and what I see in the UK psyche these days is disturbingly different to almost any other country I visit.

Can you give me some examples? I travel a lot too and don't really understand what you mean. I think Britain is as British as France is French and as Germany is German. Or is this not what you mean?

macaque wrote: »

What's wrong with British jobs for British people? The Brits have been beating themselves up for so long, they don't know who they are anymore.

"British jobs for British people" doesn't really mean anything does it? It's just a phrase that people say which I guess means something about wanting people who are born here to work in jobs here. Or does it? I'm not really sure.

My understanding of the job market is that we're in the EU and anyone in the EU can work anywhere within it. So if you can get a job in France then that's fine, or if someone from France can get a job here then that's fine. Then there are jobs that we find it hard to recruit to (nurses and doctors spring to mind) so we have a work permit system. I don't know of any other countries that don't have these and people who move in to these jobs have to be qualified to do them. Then we have other jobs that you simply aren't allowed to employ anyone in who isn't from the EU, because they don't attract a work permit and this is defined nationally.

So, with this in mind, what does "British jobs for British people" mean? As far as I can tell, British people can go for, and get, and job in this country that they choose too. I imagine that most companies would prefer to recruit a British person over a foreign national where they can too, based on the British and EU person both being similar in terms of experience, skills and competence.