Garden access. Neighbour has took access path over

RAS

Adverse possession is much harder to get these days. I think it used to be 12 years without accessing it.

WhiteHorse

cagneyfan wrote: »

... a separate path running down the side of the neighbours garden ...

Does your Land Certificate indicate ownership (sole either way or joint) ownership? Does it indicate an easement or other right of access?

I've gained access twice in 5 years, once for a painter and once for cavity wall insulation.

Assuming that the land is yours, they can't claim adverse possession as you have been using it within the last 12 years (actually, you've used it rather more, haven't you? )

If the land isn't yours, but you have a right of access, then much the same applies - they can't say you have abandoned your right.

Check your household insurance for legal expenses. Boundary disputes are usually covered.

Hippychick

Give RICS a call they will give you free 30 minute boundary dispute advice.

http://www.rics.org/boundarydisputes

G_M

Regarding your ongoing posts about the Plans. Different people/organisations will produce maps/plans for different purposes. It's difficult to know what you are looking at.

The Land Registry is the place that records land ownership - both leases and freehold. £4 buys you instantly a copy of the 'Title' document of your property (showing who owns it, who has a mortgage on it etc), and another £4 buys you the 'Plan' (map, showing boundaries, access rights etc). This may be what you have already, or maybe it's not. If there is a lease as well as a freehold, this will be listed seperately, so buy whichever is appropriate (or both!).

You can put in your neighbour's address and buy the same documents for his property.

What I have is a copy of the whole estate with my garden mapped out in red. Next doors is on and there's a definate dividing line to show that they have their garden and next to it is a path.

This does not sound like the land registry plans (which would not show the whole estate). This may be the original developer's plans (and although it is indicative, ownership / boundaries may have changed. Land Registry Plans are always current/up to date.

Then again, the local council will also have plans (which may be different again) showing public land, planning applications, and the 'Local Plan'.

You've mentioned that these properties were once (still are?) leasehold. So the freeholder (maybe the developer mentioned above, maybe not!) will also have plans, which may be historic, or up to date!

So you need to compare all these, identify which is which, and which are current and which are dated 5, 10, 20 years ago whatever.

As well as getting advice here, try the professionals, who are usually helpful. Ring the Land Registry help line and talk through your questions about boundaries. (they can work from the full address but it helps if you have the Title number).

Go in to the local council office, ask to speak to someone in the Planning Dept - they too are usually helpful.

Richard_Webster

The gentle reasonable approach is always best.

In reality I don't suppose you are that bothered where the access is. They usually organise these so that you can go round the far end of the neighbour's garden to get to the far end of yours. If he has included the right of way within his garden and prevented your access then you can suggest that he installs gates on either side of his garden so you can walk across it in front of the shed etc that are in the way.

The land Registry entries would have to be altered by deed to move the right of access so it was in a different position and all was then in order when you wanted to sell. You would suggest that he pays the costs of this. These are likely to be substantial for what is involved because both your and his mortgage lenders will have to agree to it.

The alternative is even more expensive court proceedings.

One thing does strike me though. Usually when people buy a property they look for things like rear accesses, etc. usually, as I said in my previous post, your solicitor would have pointed out in a written report that there was a right of way over an area at the side of next door's garden and you could then have said that this didn't exist on the ground. Whether or not the solicitor did explain it - and she should have done - read any report she provided - you couldn't have been very concerned about it.

If you knew the area and other similar houses had rear pedestrian accesses then you could have asked the seller and the estate agents whether there was such an access. it looks as if you have now discovered that you should have this but it obviously wasn't a big issue when you bought - otherwise you would have asked about it. So in one sense you haven't lost anything - you just have the hassle of explaining when you sell.

cagneyfan

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Does your Land Certificate indicate ownership (sole either way or joint) ownership? Does it indicate an easement or other right of access?


Assuming that the land is yours, they can't claim adverse possession as you have been using it within the last 12 years (actually, you've used it rather more, haven't you? )

If the land isn't yours, but you have a right of access, then much the same applies - they can't say you have abandoned your right.

Check your household insurance for legal expenses. Boundary disputes are usually covered.

Land Certificate??? I'm clueless. I've looked through all the paperwork the sollicitor sent me after I moved in but none of it makes any sense to me. I've not been able to find out anything regarding who owns that piece of land and don't know how to find out.

Not covered in household insurance. It's due for renewal in May. Would I be legally entitled to get that in my renewal, or would it look suspicious if in a few months time I suddenly need legal advice - when I've never taken out legal coverage before?

cagneyfan

Richard_Webster wrote: »

The gentle reasonable approach is always best.

.




One thing does strike me though. Usually when people buy a property they look for things like rear accesses, etc. usually, as I said in my previous post, your solicitor would have pointed out in a written report that there was a right of way over an area at the side of next door's garden and you could then have said that this didn't exist on the ground. Whether or not the solicitor did explain it - and she should have done - read any report she provided - you couldn't have been very concerned about it.

If you knew the area and other similar houses had rear pedestrian accesses then you could have asked the seller and the estate agents whether there was such an access. it looks as if you have now discovered that you should have this but it obviously wasn't a big issue when you bought - otherwise you would have asked about it. So in one sense you haven't lost anything - you just have the hassle of explaining when you sell.

Hi, I know ignorance is no defence, but as previously said - I'd never bought a property before and didn't have anything to compare the proceedings or the solictor with. I genuinely thought the access was by going through neighbours garden. I accepted this. However, over the years more and more clutter has been blocking the path and gate - and only now I'm thinking there may have been a path originally there and has been removed (?). Even if I was only meant to gain access via their garden, I've always been reluctant to do so as the shed is positioned at the right angle of the path thereby forceing anyone to step onto their grass/plants etc and it's always worried me in case they complained of any damage. Even if I would be within my rights to step on their grass as the shed blocks the path - they may not see it that way.

The solicitor never said there was a separate path - otherwise I would've said that there wasn't, and I never queried it because as I said before, I thought access was meant to be through their garden

alezzandro

cagneyfan wrote: »

Land Certificate??? I'm clueless. I've looked through all the paperwork the sollicitor sent me after I moved in but none of it makes any sense to me.

What others are suggesting is that you find the deeds of your neighbours to see if the path is in their boundaries (red line) or not.

Your deeds do not show your neighbour's boundaries, so you cannot tell whether that's your land, theirs, or no one's.

Your neighbour's deeds can be downloaded from the land registry website (see messages above) by paying a small fee (£4).

Don't take this in the wrong way, but it seems to me that with all our messages, comments and opinions you are getting more confused than before. If this is the case, I'd suggest you find someone (e.g. a friend) who is a bit more practical with these things and ask them for some help. Sometimes a face-to-face conversation is much more helpful than an infinite list of written messages.

cagneyfan

alezzandro wrote: »

What others are suggesting is that you find the deeds of your neighbours to see if the path is in their boundaries (red line) or not.

Your deeds do not show your neighbour's boundaries, so you cannot tell whether that's your land, theirs, or no one's.

Your neighbour's deeds can be downloaded from the land registry website (see messages above) by paying a small fee (£4).

Don't take this in the wrong way, but it seems to me that with all our messages, comments and opinions you are getting more confused than before. If this is the case, I'd suggest you find someone (e.g. a friend) who is a bit more practical with these things and ask them for some help. Sometimes a face-to-face conversation is much more helpful than an infinite list of written messages.

Your right, I am getting more and more confused. Unfortunately I don't know anyone to ask. I'll probably go to the CAB but of all the paperwork I have I'm not sure what to take. I must have my deeds - I bought the freehold after moving in and I presume what they sent are my deeds. I do have something that shows my garden outlined in red. And another piece of paper with my garden outlined also in red, but with a yellow marker to show the access route. Obviously I don't have neighbours deeds. I went on the site, but there seemed to be different things you can buy - knowing me I'll buy the wrong thing

Richard_Webster

If your deeds clearly show you have a right of access over the path it really doesn't matter who owns it.

Whether he owns it or not the neighbour is obstructing it.