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Warning: Microsoft is anti consumer and encourages piracy
Antagony
Posts: 50 Forumite
This is quite a long tale of woe, so please accept my apology if you think it's too long, and just skip to the TL;DR bullet points at the bottom.
First a little background information: I am currently relatively impoverished, as I am – and have been for many, many months now – struggling hard to keep my one man business afloat. So it was a nightmare for me when, about a month before Christmas last year, the hard disc failed on my just out of extended warranty Dell laptop. I managed to get another drive no problem, and I had all of my vital data backed up safely, but what I didn't have was a physical copy of the OEM OS installation discs [Vista Business] as everything was on the recovery partition of the failed HDD apparently. Dell were less than useless, simply saying I should send it back to them and that I would be charged an unspecified amount.
Well sending it back to Dell – for who-knows how long and at who-knows what cost – was simply out of the question; so I reluctantly decided I would have to buy a copy of Windows. Having made that decision, it seemed only sensible to get the latest (and supposedly 'greatest') OS, Windows 7 – and of course I had to have the 'Professional' edition because I needed to run some old programs in XP compatibility mode, and the 'Home' edition doesn't have that facility. But the pricing here in the UK was far from attractive, being almost twice the US price at the then rates of exchange. So I did the obvious thing for someone short of funds and looked for bargains online. There were lots of people selling the OS at better rates on sites like Amazon and eBay, but being aware of the need for caution when buying software online, I didn't go for the cheapest I could find, instead I went for an intermediately priced copy from an eBay seller with a three year old account, who had sold hundreds of items, and most importantly, had a perfect 100% reputation. I figured the seller couldn't have sold that many items over that long a period and maintained a perfect reputation if he/she was even remotely dodgy.
The package duly arrived and looked genuine – the case was shrink-wrapped and bore a holographic 'Certificate of Authenticity' sticker across the bottom – and everything inside the package looked properly and professionally produced. It also installed and activated without a hitch, so although I was unhappy at the unexpected expense, I was at least relieved to have my PC back up and running with the latest Windows OS.
Moving on to the present, some three and a half months later – and after many automatic updates and no inkling whatsoever of any problem with the authenticity of the installation – imagine my dismay at starting up my PC last Saturday morning [more about which, later] only to have it haughtily tell me that it is not running a genuine copy of Windows 7 and that it MUST be activated TODAY! What? But I've got the discs and the product key sticker etcetera, so there must surely be some mistake, mustn't there? Well, to cut a long story slightly shorter, after a lot of failed attempts to re-activate and a lot of digging around on the internet, it transpired that I had in fact been sold a counterfeit version of the OS which contained a product code issued under the MSDN evaluation/developer testing scheme, and that was never intended for retail versions. Amongst other things, this YouTube video helped to convince me.
My next course of action was to try and get back to the eBay seller. I forlornly hoped they would value their reputation enough to consider refunding me, even at this late stage, or at least consider replacing the product – maybe they were victims of a scam too. But more dismay inevitably ensued as I discovered the seller was no longer even a registered user. As I recall they had several copies of the OS to sell at the time, so no doubt one or more of the buyers had cottoned on to the problem and forced the seller out – who knows? "Okay," I thought , "you've been ripped off but there's not a great deal you can do about it now. You're just going to have to take it on the chin and fork out for a genuine copy." I thought I'd noticed earlier, during my attempts at reactivation, that the official MS price looked semi reasonable compared to what it was previously. As it turned out, however, the quoted offer price was in US dollars, and sure enough, switching to GBP hiked the price up to almost double! Add to that the fact they charge Irish VAT rates (21%) and I was starting to feel my blood pressure rising. That said, I've since checked out the price directly, without the offer available through the activation process, and it's nearly twice as much again! Anyway, I digress... I decided I had no choice as I didn't want to risk getting ripped off again with another counterfeit version, so I went ahead and ordered the offered version and paid with my credit card immediately.
And then it got really silly: at the start of the ordering process, the first page extolled the virtues of receiving... and I quote: "A new product key sent to your e-mail address and listed on the order confirmation page." Well seeing as I was being warned that I must activate Windows that very day, you probably think that was the ideal solution for me, right? Wrong! In spite of paying with a reputable credit card that's fully paid up, the order confirmation page informed me that the order was merely 'Pending' and that delivery may take between 4 - 8 days! What? You've got to be #!@&%?£ kidding me Microsoft! You've implemented an activation block giving me less than 24 hours to sort out or else; and then, when I go through the official and recommended purchasing channels, I am told I may have to wait up to 8 days!?!?! Needless to say, I am absolutely incredulous that Microsoft apparently don't have the capability or wherewithal to process credit card payments instantly in this day and age. Worse: as I mentioned earlier, all of this happened on Saturday, so all efforts to contact them through email or by phone were met with advise that their support was only available during normal office hours, pacific time. So it looked like I was about to lose the use of my PC for several days and there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it.
So here's the thing: I don't blame Microsoft for implementing anti-piracy measures, but I do think they have a responsibility to do it ethically and consider the victims whilst doing so. If they know now that the product ID is an MSDN version, then they presumably must have also known at the time of activation. So surely it would have been a trivial step for the activation process to issue some kind of alert, no? I mean, if I had received any kind of warning at the time, it would have been evident that there was something amiss and I would have stood some chance of getting my money back. Moreover, there would have been a possibility of having the seller of counterfeit copies – and maybe even the counterfeiters themselves – caught. So that's my main complaint against Microsoft: allowing the real crooks time to get off scot free, while their victims lose out and get further penalised at every juncture.
At the time of writing this litany of complaints about Microsoft – two days after the day when the problem first became known to me – I have just received a first email from them, informing me of what I already knew: that the order is pending. The only reason it was possible for me to get that email is because I was fortunate enough to discover a way to extend the deadline for activation on my PC. Luckily, it would appear the trick for extending "trial" versions also works for "blocked" versions. Annoyingly, even though I had clearly explained my predicament on the answers.microsoft.com support discussion website, no-one there had the common decency to tell me about this little loophole that would enable me to continue using my PC until the new product key arrived. It was only though my own desperate search for help on the internet that I discovered it.
I don't suppose there's a great deal I can do now to recover my losses – and even if there was, I doubt I could muster the energy to do it – but I wanted to post something online to (a) get it off my chest, and (b) warn others about the potential pitfalls of buying Microsoft software products on places like ebay. By all accounts, Microsoft reckons that over half of their software products sold by such outlets are non genuine. However, I have subsequently discovered that Microsoft's former chief exec, Jeff Raikes, once admitted they benefit from piracy. Which makes me wonder whether the seemingly obvious step, of warning users when the product they're activating isn't a genuine retail product, might be a deliberate omission!
Needless to say I am far from impressed my Microsoft here. I have always defended them in the past, and felt that much of the criticism levelled at them was unwarranted, but this episode has forced me to re-evaluate my opinion of them.
TL;DR
In summary, here are the numerous complaints I have with Microsoft on this issue
First a little background information: I am currently relatively impoverished, as I am – and have been for many, many months now – struggling hard to keep my one man business afloat. So it was a nightmare for me when, about a month before Christmas last year, the hard disc failed on my just out of extended warranty Dell laptop. I managed to get another drive no problem, and I had all of my vital data backed up safely, but what I didn't have was a physical copy of the OEM OS installation discs [Vista Business] as everything was on the recovery partition of the failed HDD apparently. Dell were less than useless, simply saying I should send it back to them and that I would be charged an unspecified amount.
Well sending it back to Dell – for who-knows how long and at who-knows what cost – was simply out of the question; so I reluctantly decided I would have to buy a copy of Windows. Having made that decision, it seemed only sensible to get the latest (and supposedly 'greatest') OS, Windows 7 – and of course I had to have the 'Professional' edition because I needed to run some old programs in XP compatibility mode, and the 'Home' edition doesn't have that facility. But the pricing here in the UK was far from attractive, being almost twice the US price at the then rates of exchange. So I did the obvious thing for someone short of funds and looked for bargains online. There were lots of people selling the OS at better rates on sites like Amazon and eBay, but being aware of the need for caution when buying software online, I didn't go for the cheapest I could find, instead I went for an intermediately priced copy from an eBay seller with a three year old account, who had sold hundreds of items, and most importantly, had a perfect 100% reputation. I figured the seller couldn't have sold that many items over that long a period and maintained a perfect reputation if he/she was even remotely dodgy.
The package duly arrived and looked genuine – the case was shrink-wrapped and bore a holographic 'Certificate of Authenticity' sticker across the bottom – and everything inside the package looked properly and professionally produced. It also installed and activated without a hitch, so although I was unhappy at the unexpected expense, I was at least relieved to have my PC back up and running with the latest Windows OS.
Moving on to the present, some three and a half months later – and after many automatic updates and no inkling whatsoever of any problem with the authenticity of the installation – imagine my dismay at starting up my PC last Saturday morning [more about which, later] only to have it haughtily tell me that it is not running a genuine copy of Windows 7 and that it MUST be activated TODAY! What? But I've got the discs and the product key sticker etcetera, so there must surely be some mistake, mustn't there? Well, to cut a long story slightly shorter, after a lot of failed attempts to re-activate and a lot of digging around on the internet, it transpired that I had in fact been sold a counterfeit version of the OS which contained a product code issued under the MSDN evaluation/developer testing scheme, and that was never intended for retail versions. Amongst other things, this YouTube video helped to convince me.
My next course of action was to try and get back to the eBay seller. I forlornly hoped they would value their reputation enough to consider refunding me, even at this late stage, or at least consider replacing the product – maybe they were victims of a scam too. But more dismay inevitably ensued as I discovered the seller was no longer even a registered user. As I recall they had several copies of the OS to sell at the time, so no doubt one or more of the buyers had cottoned on to the problem and forced the seller out – who knows? "Okay," I thought , "you've been ripped off but there's not a great deal you can do about it now. You're just going to have to take it on the chin and fork out for a genuine copy." I thought I'd noticed earlier, during my attempts at reactivation, that the official MS price looked semi reasonable compared to what it was previously. As it turned out, however, the quoted offer price was in US dollars, and sure enough, switching to GBP hiked the price up to almost double! Add to that the fact they charge Irish VAT rates (21%) and I was starting to feel my blood pressure rising. That said, I've since checked out the price directly, without the offer available through the activation process, and it's nearly twice as much again! Anyway, I digress... I decided I had no choice as I didn't want to risk getting ripped off again with another counterfeit version, so I went ahead and ordered the offered version and paid with my credit card immediately.
And then it got really silly: at the start of the ordering process, the first page extolled the virtues of receiving... and I quote: "A new product key sent to your e-mail address and listed on the order confirmation page." Well seeing as I was being warned that I must activate Windows that very day, you probably think that was the ideal solution for me, right? Wrong! In spite of paying with a reputable credit card that's fully paid up, the order confirmation page informed me that the order was merely 'Pending' and that delivery may take between 4 - 8 days! What? You've got to be #!@&%?£ kidding me Microsoft! You've implemented an activation block giving me less than 24 hours to sort out or else; and then, when I go through the official and recommended purchasing channels, I am told I may have to wait up to 8 days!?!?! Needless to say, I am absolutely incredulous that Microsoft apparently don't have the capability or wherewithal to process credit card payments instantly in this day and age. Worse: as I mentioned earlier, all of this happened on Saturday, so all efforts to contact them through email or by phone were met with advise that their support was only available during normal office hours, pacific time. So it looked like I was about to lose the use of my PC for several days and there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it.
So here's the thing: I don't blame Microsoft for implementing anti-piracy measures, but I do think they have a responsibility to do it ethically and consider the victims whilst doing so. If they know now that the product ID is an MSDN version, then they presumably must have also known at the time of activation. So surely it would have been a trivial step for the activation process to issue some kind of alert, no? I mean, if I had received any kind of warning at the time, it would have been evident that there was something amiss and I would have stood some chance of getting my money back. Moreover, there would have been a possibility of having the seller of counterfeit copies – and maybe even the counterfeiters themselves – caught. So that's my main complaint against Microsoft: allowing the real crooks time to get off scot free, while their victims lose out and get further penalised at every juncture.
At the time of writing this litany of complaints about Microsoft – two days after the day when the problem first became known to me – I have just received a first email from them, informing me of what I already knew: that the order is pending. The only reason it was possible for me to get that email is because I was fortunate enough to discover a way to extend the deadline for activation on my PC. Luckily, it would appear the trick for extending "trial" versions also works for "blocked" versions. Annoyingly, even though I had clearly explained my predicament on the answers.microsoft.com support discussion website, no-one there had the common decency to tell me about this little loophole that would enable me to continue using my PC until the new product key arrived. It was only though my own desperate search for help on the internet that I discovered it.
I don't suppose there's a great deal I can do now to recover my losses – and even if there was, I doubt I could muster the energy to do it – but I wanted to post something online to (a) get it off my chest, and (b) warn others about the potential pitfalls of buying Microsoft software products on places like ebay. By all accounts, Microsoft reckons that over half of their software products sold by such outlets are non genuine. However, I have subsequently discovered that Microsoft's former chief exec, Jeff Raikes, once admitted they benefit from piracy. Which makes me wonder whether the seemingly obvious step, of warning users when the product they're activating isn't a genuine retail product, might be a deliberate omission!
Needless to say I am far from impressed my Microsoft here. I have always defended them in the past, and felt that much of the criticism levelled at them was unwarranted, but this episode has forced me to re-evaluate my opinion of them.
TL;DR
In summary, here are the numerous complaints I have with Microsoft on this issue
- Microsoft activated a counterfeited copy of Windows 7, which it transpired was using an MSDN account product key. This was done without issuing any warning that the product's ID was not for a retail version. This allows pirates/counterfeiters and the peddlers of their wares plenty of time to get off scot free, and their victims no opportunity to recover their money.
- They then blocked the product after over 3 months of letting me think the software I'd purchased was genuine.
- They allowed only one day to sort out the activation by getting genuine product keys installed.
- The block was imposed on a Saturday morning, two days before any further technical assistance would be available.
- They offered buying a copy online as a solution – promoting the fact the new product keys would be emailed directly – but then, after placing the order and paying with a clean, reputable credit card, they set the order's status to "pending" and declared delivery may take from 4 - 8 days!
- The UK/EU price of their OS software is almost twice what it is in the US!
- When complaining about the activation process on their support discussion board, and clearly explaining my predicament, not one of the so-called experts there offered the rearm trick as an interim measure to avoid losing the use of my PC for several days.
-Ant
0
Comments
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Use Linux.0
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How much did Microsoft charge you for the W7 ? You can get an OEM one from eg ebuyer for a bit over 70 quid. I know strictly speaking they shouldn't be bought by people other than resellers / system builders, but they work and are legit.0
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Hi Antagony,
So, are you asking for help in trying to recover your money, or just having a good old fashioned rant?
I ask because if it's the second option we have a board especially for warnings such as yours and I can move the thread across there for you.Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
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No disrespect, but it was buying from ebay that got me into all this trouble in the first place. If you'd read the post through you would realize that – not that I'd blame you for not reading that wall of text.How much did Microsoft charge you for the W7 ? You can get an OEM one from eg ebuyer for a bit over 70 quid. I know strictly speaking they shouldn't be bought by people other than resellers / system builders, but they work and are legit.
The eventual price I've paid (which includes Irish VAT at 21%) was £131.89 which is about the same as the most reliable looking sellers on Amazon.-Ant0 -
Hi squeaky,Hi Antagony,
So, are you asking for help in trying to recover your money, or just having a good old fashioned rant?
I ask because if it's the second option we have a board especially for warnings such as yours and I can move the thread across there for you.
Yes it's just a rant really. And hopefully a warning to others thinking of buying MS software products through eBay. I wasn't exactly sure where to post it, so please feel free to move it as you see fit.-Ant0 -
I'll give it a while, the experts here may be able to come up with something.
A really brief summary would be that you've been ripped off by an ebay seller who ain't talking to you. Would that be about right?Hi, I'm a Board Guide on the Old Style and the Consumer Rights boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. It is not part of my role to deal with reportable posts. Any views are mine and are not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.DTFAC: Y.T.D = £5.20 Apr £0.50
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Not really. I've accepted that I was ripped of on eBay, but that happened last December and the seller is no longer a registered user – and therefore uncontactable – so I doubt I'd get much joy even trying to talk to them. No, my gripe here is entirely with Microsoft; whose activation policy enabled the rip off to occur in the first place, and then punished me further with a draconian blocking measure out of the blue.A really brief summary would be that you've been ripped off by an ebay seller who ain't talking to you. Would that be about right?-Ant0 -
No disrespect, but it was buying from ebay that got me into all this trouble in the first place. If you'd read the post through you would realize that – not that I'd blame you for not reading that wall of text.
The eventual price I've paid (which includes Irish VAT at 21%) was £131.89 which is about the same as the most reliable looking sellers on Amazon.
no disrespect , but the poster didn't say ebay, he said ebuyer, which is a supplier of computer parts and software. I wouldn't recmmoned buying an operating system from ebay unless its a ebay shop site of a computer storeDon't try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig0 -
No disrespect, but it was buying from ebay that got me into all this trouble in the first place. If you'd read the post through you would realize that – not that I'd blame you for not reading that wall of text.
The eventual price I've paid (which includes Irish VAT at 21%) was £131.89 which is about the same as the most reliable looking sellers on Amazon.
No disrespect, but my wall of text was a bit smaller than yours and you managed to misread where I said ebuyer, a long-term IT supplier
I'd never buy OEM or other versions of Windows from ebay, it's pretty much a den of thieves.0
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