This might be contoversial but...

hobo28

ThisNameIsTaken wrote:

I went to Natwest to ask for a temporary overdraft extension to cover a direct debit that was coming out and was told this would not be possible.
I was charged £35 for the failed direct debit, which took me over my over draft limit.
This was then charged £50 for unarranged borrowing.
Because of that I was then short of money when I got paid which meant I could not pay the £200 I owed to Egg, who the direct debit was going to.
Egg then charged me for missed payments on my loan and threatened to terminate it.

I am wondering why the bank turned you down for your overdraft request? Were you already in overdraft? Did you consider ringing up the company who were going to debit your account and ask them to wait? The fact remains that you didn't have the money and expected the bank to pay your bills with THEIR money.

I've been with several banks over the years, Barclays, TSB, Natwest, IF and all have been accommodating when I told them BEFORE the event. The odd occasions I've slipped up, most have refunded the charges as a gesture of goodwill. Only Intelligent Finance didn't after I made a mistake in my calculations. It was my mistake tho which I hold my hand up to.

I'm not saying that the bank charges are fair. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who have not managed their finances and expect the bank to keep dishing money out.

The fear I have is that by removing the "punitive" part of the charges then these people get more brazen. Then the good folk who do manage their finances properly end up subsidising the others.

nickmack

hobo28 wrote:

I'm not saying that the bank charges are fair. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who have not managed their finances and expect the bank to keep dishing money out.

Although some customers are poor at managing their finances, alot of the people reclaiming their charges, are not frivolously spending. They simply struggle to afford day to day living and are punished by the banks unlawfully for minor indiscretions. These charges mount up and make the problem worse. Some banks then offer a give a loan to pay off the overdraft and charges, monthly outgoings increase again and we're back to square one.

Regarding the banks 'dishing out', one of the problems is that banks are only too keen to give out money in the form of overdrafts and loans. They know people will run up charges. People who earn a good income and have spare cash and savings, don't generally need loans or overdrafts, but the less well off do. The banks are exploiting poorer people for profit.

thecornflake

nickmack wrote:

Regarding the banks 'dishing out', one of the problems is that banks are only too keen to give out money in the form of overdrafts and loans. They know people will run up charges. People who earn a good income and have spare cash and savings, don't generally need loans or overdrafts, but the less well off do. The banks are exploiting poorer people for profit.

People who work at banks have sales targets for getting customers to take out loans and overdrafts. We were forced to take out a loan by our bank under threat of reposession of our house, which we now know they couldn't have done, even though we repeatedly told them we couldn't afford the repayments. Our claim will include the loan payments we made and the interest charged before luckily an inheritance left to me to buy a house had to be used to pay it off.

Total claim from that bank is now up to at least £17,000 without interest and I'm saving it till last. And I'm prepared to take it all the way if I have to.

Ironically the refunded mortgage redemption fees from the same bank group will pay for the claim as I'm sure they will let it go to court claim stage, amusingly using money claimed back from them to issue the next claim. There's some odd justice in that.

And on the original subject, yes some people are irresponsible with money but if you were just not allowed to take out/DD any more money than you have in your account it would all be fine.

maniac886

I was charged £100.00 for going over by £1.20 for 5 small payments. Do I think thats fair.NO! I definately don't have a problem reclaiming it!

hobo28

thecornflake wrote:

We were forced to take out a loan by our bank under threat of reposession of our house, which we now know they couldn't have done, even though we repeatedly told them we couldn't afford the repayments.

Of course, lying is totally wrong and I'm totally with you on that one.

catkins

hobo28 wrote:

We are very lucky to get free banking in this country and it annoys me that this is increasingly being put at risk by those who cannot/will not manage their finances properly and are ruining it for the rest of us.

Personally I would like to see all banks give a free overdraft of £100 providing the money is paid off within say a week. That way people don't get hammered for little amounts and there's still an incentive to balance your account.


We all go through bad patches but its not the banks fault is it? You have a duty to keep your account in order.

Now you've claimed it all back, whats the disincentive to go overdrawn again?

I was not going to bother answering you, but I feel I should. No, of course it is not the bank's fault BUT at the time myself and OH were bringing home about £1,300 a month and our rent and council tax together were £900. We were struggling to pay bills and buy food. We never went overdrawn spending money on unnecessary items.

We would go £1 (sometimes more, sometimes LESS!) overdrawn and the bank would charge us £30. Since when did it cost £30 to send a letter? They knew our wages would be going in (often the next day) but no they had to charge us. So of course we would then be £30 worse off the next month or more if they had sent more than one letter. We might have a duty to keep our account in order but how the hell do we keep money in there that we just do not have? On the whole the banks penalise the people who can least afford it. I take it you have never been in the situation of having 2 bills to pay and only enough money to pay one or weighing up whether you can afford to have the heating on at all?

You say things are being ruined by people who cannot or will not keep their bank accounts in order. If they honestly cannot what are they meant to do?

As for your comment suggesting I may try claiming back in the future - I can assure you that I have not incurred any charges for months now and intend to keep it that way. The £2,000 I claimed back is money the bank took from me when I needed it most. I am not ashamed of that nor do I feel guilty. Banks have had it their own way for far too long and if they do start making other charges because of people reclaiming then it is just their greed.

icklepeach

The banks have been getting away with this for far too long

It is unlawful to make a profit on the charge.

That's the end of the point!

The whos whats wheres whens and whys people paid the charges are virtually irrelevant. Not all bank branches are warm and accommodating, my own branch manager mocked, ridiculed and threatened me until I was in tears, when I'd paid nearly £400 in the 2 days before my student loan cleared. that was half of the money I had to live on for the next 10 weeks. Now the bank would have had that money for several days before the date that it was due to clear into my account. In total I have paid over £6500 in charges in 6 years on my student account, that's the equivalent of 2 years of student loan. Reclaiming that money will pay off the loan and credit cards I took out to get by as a student.

Do I feel guilty? nope
Would I rather pay £10 a month for a charges-free bank account? yes. I've not had free banking in the last 6 years. I've paid on average £100 a month for my account.

hobo28

icklepeach wrote:

Would I rather pay £10 a month for a charges-free bank account? yes. I've not had free banking in the last 6 years. I've paid on average £100 a month for my account.

I think your right. The way things are going, we're gonna lose free banking. First Direct are doing it. Personally I expect the others will follow suit at some point.

In fact, I do pay £10 a month for my banking. This gets me a much more personal level of service and a larger than usual overdraft for those "unexpected" times.

My point is not so much about how much banks charge but more the fact that there are so many people now who manage their affairs badly and live in a world where nothing is ever their fault.

I have a friend who is a mortgage advisor (who posts here too). She is being approached more and more by people who have bad credit ratings and want to borrow 5x their joint income to buy a house. She says no but I'm sure someone else would help. Now inevitably this is going to make their financial situation rather difficult and a good chance they'll end up overdrawn.

At this point, who's fault is it? I suspect the couple would blame the bank for charging them or the mortgage company for lending them the money in the first place. Personally I would say its their fault for overstretching themselves.

nickmack

hobo28 wrote:

My point is not so much about how much banks charge but more the fact that there are so many people now who manage their affairs badly and live in a world where nothing is ever their fault.

Yes, some people do mis-manage their finances, 'live for today, not tomorrow' and spend frivolously on keeping up with the Jones' but many people in these situations really struggle to pay their bills every month and not because they've just gone out and bought a new 42" plasma TV.

I have a friend who is a mortgage advisor (who posts here too). She is being approached more and more by people who have bad credit ratings and want to borrow 5x their joint income to buy a house. She says no but I'm sure someone else would help. Now inevitably this is going to make their financial situation rather difficult and a good chance they'll end up overdrawn.

At this point, who's fault is it? I suspect the couple would blame the bank for charging them or the mortgage company for lending them the money in the first place. Personally I would say its their fault for overstretching themselves.

The lending criteria has gone this way because of house prices. Alot of people are stretched to the limit. Owning a house is one of the big achievements in life and something the majority aspire to.

It's a vicious cycle for many people, you wait and try to save (whilst probably still paying rent) and then the prices still increase. You try and buy now and you're stretched to the limit. Virtually, the only other options are to live at home or rent forever.

More and more institutions, don't lend 4x,5x or another multiplier, they base calculations on affordability after taking income/outgoings into account.

You can't blame people for overstretching themselves if it's for the basics. If people don't have enough money, it's not necessarily because of mis-management. It certainly doesn't help when people pay compounding charges which are unlawful.

icklepeach

hobo28 wrote:

My point is not so much about how much banks charge but more the fact that there are so many people now who manage their affairs badly and live in a world where nothing is ever their fault.

But surely this has to be in balance? I've paid nearly 2 years worth of student loan income in charges?! a total of £750 in one month, because the charges at the beginning of the month ate my budget for the rest of the month so these things snowball.

Nobody is perfect, but if the banks charged what it cost them, I would have paid less than £100 in that time.