help required with HFO Services please

louise_g_2

Hi Everyone,

I'm new so please forgive me if I have posted in the wrong place. Whilst searching for some help to our problem, I came across this website. I have read some previous posts about these people, but can't find any answers.

Over the past 2 weeks, these people have been hassling me, without saying who they are or what it's about. They ask for my husband and demand his mobile number, although I refuse and put down the telephone.

My husband has received a huge letter from HFO services, demanding £4001.02 owed to Welcome finance, with a 72hr notice of litigation, and a booklet titled ' I cannot pay my judgement- what do I do'.
Back in 2003, my husband had a car loan from welcome, and paid his monthly payments as they were due. In 2004 the car was written off in an accident, and welcome finance shortfall insurance was supposed to cover the shortfall. My husband disputed the shortfall as Welcome refused to pay it, even though we had proof of their cover. He refused to pay the amount they were asking, and they referred it to a debt collectors called Rockwell. My husband eventually came to an agreement with Rockwell, to pay a reduced amount. This was paid by direct debit, until my husband received a letter stating no more payments would be taken, and the balance was zero, I think this was in 2005.

So today, my husband called HFO Services and asked them why they were asking him for this amount of money. They basically said he didn't pay this loan off and the last payment they received was in 2005 for £80. He told them he payed this loan off years ago and he didn't owe anything, and he wasn't going to be paying them anything. She replied " we'll sue you then!"
My husband called Rockwell to try and get some payment info, and the guy said they don't have anything on file as it was so long ago. He also said that if Welcome had sold the debt to Rockwell, why were HFO trying to claim it as well?
I'm unsure as what to do next. My husband works away and only comes home at the weekend, so I need to deal with this for him, but I don't know where to start. I have found a copy of the original credit agreement, and the amount of the credit and the car purchase comes to a lot less than these people are asking. I can't find any bank statements from that long ago.
Please can someone point me in the right direction to get some help. I can't sleep for worrying. We have a brilliant credit history and are saving to hopefully move to a bigger house in a couple of years, but with what's looking like a CCJ on file, that won't be possible.
Thank you in advance....... A very worried Louise

bottleofred

Hi Louise and welcome to the forum,

There are a few options available to you, but the first thing I'd suggest is sending the prove it letter to HFO to establish whether or not they can prove your husband actually owes this money to them. You can also send a letter stating you only want to deal with them in writing, so that should put a stop to the phonecalls. I'm not sure if it works the same for HP as it does for personal loans etc, but if the last payment was made in 2005, this debt may be close to or could even be statute barred now. A debt becomes statute barred when no payment or acknowledgement is made of the debt within 6 years (5 in Scotland). As I said, I'm not 100% certain it's the same for HP, but hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will be along soon with more/better advice. I've attached the letters below. Post the prove it letter first and the other about being contacted in writing only. Try to find out exactly when the last payment was made in 2005, but if you think it's been settled, can you ask the bank for a copy of bank statements from that time? Your husband should get a copy of his credit file to check if this debt is on it. You can get a free copy by signing up to experian or equifax online, but cancel the trial period as soon as you get the copy of the credit report, as they will charge you after the trial period ends. Finally, don't let the debt collectors bully or harass you. If they call again, tell them you only wish to be contacted in writing and hang up the phone. And if they happen to call when your husband is there, tell him not to go through the security check with them. Send the letters recorded delivery.

Good luck

Red

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing. I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls and I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only. I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine. Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company may be recorded and used in evidence and I expect this harassment to cease immediately.

Yours faithfully

1 High Street,
Newtown,
Kent
R21 4RH
October 9, 2007

The Loan Company
Company House,
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx

You have contacted us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves.

We would point out that we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to The Loan Company.

We are familiar with the ‘Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance’ which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

We would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore, ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

We would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence as to our liability for the debt in question.

We await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise we will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

We look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

FTW

louise_g wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I'm new so please forgive me if I have posted in the wrong place. Whilst searching for some help to our problem, I came across this website. I have read some previous posts about these people, but can't find any answers.

Over the past 2 weeks, these people have been hassling me, without saying who they are or what it's about. They ask for my husband and demand his mobile number, although I refuse and put down the telephone.

HFO are scum, and are highly notorious for harassment – a google search will tell you how deeply unpopular they are. They were also cited on the news at least once, for piling telephone calls onto a retired policeman. Best thing to do with HFO is hang up on them or keep repeating 'only in writing...only in writing' until they get bored and hang up. They’ve no right to demand anything.

louise_g wrote: »

My husband has received a huge letter from HFO services, demanding £4001.02 owed to Welcome finance, with a 72hr notice of litigation, and a booklet titled ' I cannot pay my judgement- what do I do'.

Your husband doesn’t have a judgement – another clear attempt at intimidation by HFO. Just on account of that reason alone, it’s worth making complaints to the Office of Fair Trading, Consumer Direct, and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

louise_g wrote: »

Back in 2003, my husband had a car loan from welcome, and paid his monthly payments as they were due. In 2004 the car was written off in an accident, and welcome finance shortfall insurance was supposed to cover the shortfall. My husband disputed the shortfall as Welcome refused to pay it, even though we had proof of their cover. He refused to pay the amount they were asking, and they referred it to a debt collectors called Rockwell. My husband eventually came to an agreement with Rockwell, to pay a reduced amount. This was paid by direct debit, until my husband received a letter stating no more payments would be taken, and the balance was zero, I think this was in 2005.

If a 6 year period has already elapsed in relation to this. If so, then HFO cannot take it to court – the ‘debt’ would be statute barred. Also, if it’s already paid, then why would anyone pay again for the same debt?

louise_g wrote: »

So today, my husband called HFO Services and asked them why they were asking him for this amount of money. They basically said he didn't pay this loan off and the last payment they received was in 2005 for £80. He told them he payed this loan off years ago and he didn't owe anything, and he wasn't going to be paying them anything. She replied " we'll sue you then!"

If that was over 6 years ago, they can’t - impotent, empty threats.

Also, there is some doubt as to the ‘ownership’ of HFO accounts (you’ll find more details about this by google again), specifically ‘HFO Services’ and ‘HFO Capital’, and I believe that’s all up in the air at the minute.

What’s clearly happening is that the ‘account’ would be close to (if not elapsed) statute barred status.

All you’d need to do to ensure that it does elapse SB status, is to prolong the situation out.

The Prove It letter, as bottleoffred has suggested, should be the first letter that you send out.

If they do send you anything back, then you should send the Statute Barred letter. Remembering of course that it’s up to HFO to prove that it isn’t statute barred – not for you to prove that it is.

Then, if they do provide absolute proof that the last payment/written acknowledgement of debt was under 6 years ago, do a CCA request (for which you’d need to enclose a £1 postal order).

Being Welcome, who I understand are on the ropes and about to be extinct, and being that it was so long ago, I’d be very surprised if HFO manage to get the original agreement for this one.

Also, a couple of important points.

Any correspondence to HFO should be kept strictly to writing, do NOT provide any signatures at any point for any reason whatsoever, and all correspondence should be sent recorded delivery (otherwise, HFO will just deny ever getting it).

louise_g wrote: »

My husband called Rockwell to try and get some payment info, and the guy said they don't have anything on file as it was so long ago. He also said that if Welcome had sold the debt to Rockwell, why were HFO trying to claim it as well?

Rockwell are supposed to keep data on closed accounts for a full 6 years - it would actually be a breach of law if they haven't (money laundering regulations). If it turns out that it's under 6 years, then it might be worth reporting Rockwell as well.

louise_g wrote: »

I'm unsure as what to do next. My husband works away and only comes home at the weekend, so I need to deal with this for him, but I don't know where to start. I have found a copy of the original credit agreement, and the amount of the credit and the car purchase comes to a lot less than these people are asking. I can't find any bank statements from that long ago.

Worth keeping the original credit agreement to one side - so it can be compared to whatever (if anything) HFO send out to you.

But that would come only if you need to send a CCA request off (which requests a copy of the original agreement),

A CCA request puts the onus on the company to substantiate their legal right to collect on an outstanding account. A court would take a very dim view on a company that instigated court action, but did not honour a CCA request.

But, the order of letters to send are listed above - you only need send HFO a CCA request IF they 'prove it' and IF they 'prove' that the account's not statute barred.

And that's gotta be good, because it wastes time and creates hassle for HFO - and by which time it's over, it's even more likely that the account is statute barred.

louise_g wrote: »

Please can someone point me in the right direction to get some help. I can't sleep for worrying. We have a brilliant credit history and are saving to hopefully move to a bigger house in a couple of years, but with what's looking like a CCJ on file, that won't be possible.
Thank you in advance....... A very worried Louise

No need to panic. I think you should send the two letters off as bottleoffred has suggested, but remember NOT to enclose any signature (you do NOT have to give this) and sent recorded delivery - so you can disprove if HFO try to claim they never received them.

But, I see no reason why the Telephone Harassment letter and 'Prove It' letter can't be sent in the same envelope.

louise_g_2

Thank you so much for all your replies and advice. I will as suggested send those two letters tomorrow, and I'll update with anything as it happens.
In the meantime, i'll stop worrying, they're letters really scared me, but I did do a google search before I was directed here, and was astonished to find the amount of people having problems from these bullies..

barbiedoll

That is exactly the point of their letters, they are designed to scare you into paying a debt that is either not valid or not even yours. The careful use of words such as "litigation", "judgement" and the even more scary..."72 hours notice" and so on, have been proved time and again to frighten people into paying these so-called debts.

Bottleofred and FTW have provided excellent advice already, it just remains for me to say, don't panic and do let us know how you get on. We can help you thorough this all the way.

FTW

louise_g wrote: »

Thank you so much for all your replies and advice. I will as suggested send those two letters tomorrow, and I'll update with anything as it happens.
In the meantime, i'll stop worrying, they're letters really scared me, but I did do a google search before I was directed here, and was astonished to find the amount of people having problems from these bullies..

Oh, they're a popular bunch are HFO.

The clap has a better reputation than that lot.

HFO_Basher

Never speak to HFO on the Phone, unless you can record them, say 'in writing only' and hang up they will lie to you and tie you in knots. I would not send the SB letter until you can be sure that this is definately SB, you can send a Subject access request to Welcome to get all the info on this, it will cost £10 but is worth it as they can supply the last payment date and other info.

Send HFO a CCA request with £1 postal order this will keep them busy while you obtain more info from Welcome.

Please Google HFO and Turnbull and you will find a new website where people are organising a petition and other action against these scum.

Also google OFT and make a complaint to them about the way HFO have treated you and in addition, google Consumer Action Group as you will find a lot of friends there who have similar problems to you. Read some threads on there

Here is the SAR letter to send to Welcome, they have up to 40 days to reply but it will be worth it to fight this


Data Protection Compliance Manager
Welcome Financial Services
KINGSTON HOUSE
CENTRE 27 BUSINESS PARK
WOODHEAD ROAD
BIRSTALL
BATLEY
WF17 9TD

REMEMBER THE £10 POSTAL ORDER AND SEND RECORDED DELIVERY

[your address]



[their address]


[DATE]


Data Protection Act 1998
Subject access request

Dear Sir/Madam


ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

ease supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to my business with yourselves.
Please note that I require disclosure of any data which you hold on me for the entire period of my business with you.
The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not linited merely to 6 years.co.of historical information.
Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.
I require all information on details of all insurance products supplied by welcome financial services. This is to include the statement of means, statement of price, details of all insurance premium tax paid, and underwriting sheets.
If mortage indemnity insurance has been added to the agreement, i require all details on who this premium was paid to, and who underwrites this insurance.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of an agreement you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists, the type of filing system or archive the originals are stored on.

If it is the case that any of the requested documents can not be supplied because they have been destroyed,please indicate;

1.The date the document (s) was/were destroyed.

2.The method used for destruction.

3.The position of the individual/individuals tasked with destruction.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest or charges which you have levied on them.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.
Yours faithfully,

louise_g_2

Thanks Basher for the letter to Welcome, I will get onto it this afternoon.
Have posted off a 'prove it' letter this morning to HFO, recorded delivery, and my husband did not sign it, I just printed his name. I have also ordered a credit report this morning, so I can have a look on that when I get it.

I have received another letter this morning from HFO. It's a schedule of litigation. A brief outline is " You have failed to make any payment, our only option to pursue this matter is through the courts. Then an activity table and timeline, ending with "You may raise a defence by responding to the claim from the county court"
....oh and they also suggest that we engage the services of a solicitor, and have enclosed a 14 page booklet titled "civil and family court fees" highlighting the costs to us if we do not pay our debt.

I've just filed it with the other jargon we've received from them.

I will update you all when I have some more news.
Again a big thanks to all for your help, I'm even more determined not to give these a penny!!

Louise

louise_g_2

Sorry guys, can someone point me in the direction of where I could obtain a CCA request. This is all new to me and I'm not even sure what one is!!
I have read there are template letters on this site, but i cannot find them.

Thank-you again

fermi

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/page.php?page=getting_a_copy_of_your_credit_agreement_and_account_details

louise_g_2

Thanks Fermi for the link.