jackofallgames.co.uk - Help advise me on a possible £400 Scam/theft/fraud case :(

themaidenmaniac

Hi guys,

First post here, and unfortunately a bad one. Ordered a camera before christmas from a "company" that go by the name of Jack of All Games, and the stock was never forth coming. It looks like I am going to have some major issues claiming this money back, so it would be highly appreciated to get some advise from those in the know along the way through this. Here is the case summary thus far. Apologies, it is a hell of a read for someone not involved no doubt.

- £399.99 Nikon D31000 Camera ordered from Jackofallgames.co.uk December 16th order 14519. Jack of All Games Ltd.
- Then Email immediately received stating that they would not be able to send out any goods until after their christmas shut down. Fair enough?
- Company refuse to deal via telephone
- Mailed JOAG 16th December (same date) asking for refund accounts - No response – waited until after their close down period to re-contact.
- 6th January emailed JOAG. Still no goods received.
- Reply on 8th from JOAG “Tim Manton” stating a stock issue and that they would be in on Jan 19th.
- Waited until January 19th, still no sign of an update. 22nd January email sent.
- 26th Jan email received, stating that the stocks were not forth coming and they are trying to source another supplier. Stated that they would forward information soonest, and to email if I wanted it refunded. -
- 26th Jan – emailed JOAG asking for a refund.
- 3rd Feb – emailed JOAG for an update, no response.
- 9th Feb – emailed JOAG for an update, no response.
- 24th Feb – emailed JOAG for an update, no response.
- 26th February - Case With Paypal Logged
- Visited site appears to be falling apart, no updates to it and all prices have been removed.
- 26th February - Paypal closed the case immediately, out of their “45 day” refund policy. Technically, 67 days had passed. Now I know what people mean about paypal trying to protect the sellers. Epic fail.
- 26th February – Emailed paypal to express the situation but they never replied.
- 28th Feb - emailed for JOAG an update/inform them that I am now taking action, no response.
- 4th Mar – Visited Natwest for advice on a chargeback. A direct debit chargeback was logged with surprisingly relative ease.
- 9th Mar – Natwest telephoned. Unable to do the chargeback because paypal is an authorised direct debit on my account.
- 9th Mar – Appears website is down.
- 9th Mar – Telephoned paypal to discuss. They refused to refund, advised me to look at bank chargebacks and advised consumer direct hotline.

Consumer direct case logged

- Research carried out suggests that as my card is a visa debit card, I should be able to make a chargeback or be covered for a fraud claim?
- Complete email dossier can be provided if and when required. The "company" refuse to deal on the telephone and hide behind the mask of emails, rarely responding in a bid to hold off the consumer.
A thread about this company has sprung up on money saving expert:

Thread 2969088

- Appears the company may be a "drop shipping company", whereby they actually carry no stock, and order each item as they get an order. Assume they then attempt to get the goods for the cheapest price, often from company's such as pixmania and get the goods sent to the original buyer making a small profit margin.

10th Mar - Consumer direct say that I should write jack of all games a letter.
10th Mar - Online research carried out. Looks like the visa debit protection scheme may not work either. Paypal took the money directly from the bank as a direct debit.


Now, the question is... what the hell am i going to do to get these funds back? The big problem seems to lie in a grey area whereby paypal are authorised to take funds from my bank account, so the bank are hiding behind this, and paypals "protection scheme" is utter garbage, since they encourage you to fix things with the seller and then laugh at you when the 45 days have gone passed. What a joke.

What I have learnt so far...

Even if nobody replies to this thread, hopefully it may get some views and be of help to people. Never pick a company based on price, no matter how legit their website appears. I even read reviews, which 200 odd were fine- seems like they probably made these themselves. Never use paypal for big purchases, unless you like risk. I have now got myself my first ever credit card which I plan to use to fund the paypal account in future.

Hopes of getting my money back are becoming slimmer by the day it seems. I believe Jack of all games are fraudsters, and appear to have burned a few people online right around xmas time.

halibut2209

Send them a Letter Before Action advising them that if you do not have the money refunded with 14 days, you will take them to the small claims court. Then do so. Seems like an open and shut case

themaidenmaniac

Thanks Halibut. Its been good to summarise this, so I can look at it more logically now.

My worry is that there are rumours from my brief googling that they may have gone into liquidation, which may make things more complicated yet again.

squeaky

There's an MSE article that may be of help should things go that way...

Administration Help: Reclaim your cash from companies

When a firm goes bust it is placed in Administration. This is a clear and simple explanation of how it all works, where you are in the pecking order of who gets their money back, and how to make the best of your chances of recovering your own money.

Optimist

I think you should go back to your bank as that response just doesn't sound correct if you used a Visa debit card then the Visa chargeback rules should apply although it isn't a legal obligation

An other option is to raise a complaint against Paypal with the Financial Ombudsman.

halibut2209

Paypal act as an agent so S75 and Chargebacks don't apply. So any recourse is with them. And Paypal is an authorised direct debit, so you can't chargeback that.

In hindsight, what the OP should have done (and this is not a dig or criticism ) is claim from paypal after 44 days

" I should be able to make a chargeback or be covered for a fraud claim"

Only against paypal, and they didn't do anything wrong.

Now, whether paypal are acting lawfully by refusing to refund after 45 days is another matter, and one of which I am unsure.

themaidenmaniac

Thanks for posting squeaky, halibut and optimist.

With regards to going back to the bank, that doesnt look like a possibility now. I thought that would be the ace card, but as paypal are on direct debit as far as i understand this bypasses the card protection?

I will get a letter sent off to the so say registered address I guess, even though i wont get a reply because they probably arent even there

And Halibut, tell me about it It was so damn silly leaving it longer than the 45 day period. I had too much faith in 1. A random internet shop 2. Paypal & 3. My bank. Now all three have failed in a row its looking pretty bad.

themaidenmaniac

Just a little update. Sent an email to watchdog.