Time to start a thread on public sector pensions

nic_santorini

FrankieBoyle wrote: »

These were the figures given by the BBC. The £75k is a final salary (the old scheme), the £45k a career average salary (the new scheme). These figures make me want to cry - I can't imagine how much I'll have to put away to generate a pension of £45k pa and to think these public sector workers are moaning and going on strike!!!

Frankly it makes me sick. Public sector workers need to wake up and smell the coffee:(

Can you tell me how much you pay into your pension every month personally then? I currently pay in £350 per month, soon to go up to £500 per month, and my public pension will be about £25k per year, so it is not massive. To get 75k would have to be a 2/3rds final salary scheme and as teachers they pay less than police officers, who pay a staggering 11% - incidentally just found out today the Foreign and Commonwealth Office employees have a good public pension scheme and they only pay 3%, so perhaps you should moan more about those even closer to government who pay in !!!!!! all.

So please tell me, how much you pay in, as I would be interested to see, so then I can make a comparison and comment further.

Generali

thescouselander wrote: »

I think what you are suggesting would set a very dangerous precedent. If the government was to change to law to allow it to get out of its contractual obligations to its employees then why stop there?

The government could also change the law to get out of any obligations to its private sector contractors. 25 year PFI contracts could be wiped out at a pen stroke. Large Defence contracts could also be cancelled immediately. In fact, why should the government pay for any services provided by the private sector at all - it could just change the law so it doesn't have to honour its agreements.

This would provide savings to the tax payer in the very short term but no-one would ever do business with the UK government again. We'd all be in trouble then.

It happens a lot. Labour Governments for example have Nationalised entire industries repudiating swathes of contracts in the process as well as trampling over property rights.

Constitutionally, no Government can compel a future one to so something. Unfortunately for Central Government employees that includes paying contractually accrued pensions.

ILW

nic_santorini wrote: »

Why? Please justify your ignorant statement?

Possibly that the private sector cannot afford it.

treliac

People complain about the state of public services already. I wonder what state they'll be in a few years hence. I guess not many care.... until they need them themselves, that is.

Just for the record I've worked in a number of private sector companies. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen sloppiness, lack of commitment and lazy attitudes. DH tells me stories about the gravy train in his sector... some people seem to have the knack of getting away with almost anything.

dori2o

ILW wrote: »

Trouble with that is public sector wages are no longer lower than private sector.

Incorrect I'm afraid.

I work in a HMRC contact Centre. The equivalent job in the private sector would be something like accountancy, especially for places such as TAXBACK.COM where their basic salary is in excess of £20k plus commission, medical insurance, free parking.

Then theres traditional accountants who complete tax returns etc for people, average salary in excess of £30k.

Debt collection is another similar private sector, again the average basic is £20k or more plus commission, etc, etc.

I get £18434PA, no commission, no healthcare plan, no company car, no free parking.

FrankieBoyle wrote: »

These were the figures given by the BBC. The £75k is a final salary (the old scheme), the £45k a career average salary (the new scheme). These figures make me want to cry - I can't imagine how much I'll have to put away to generate a pension of £45k pa and to think these public sector workers are moaning and going on strike!!!

Frankly it makes me sick. Public sector workers need to wake up and smell the coffee:(

And you believe £45k pensions are commonplace within the PS?

It maybe for the higher paid workers, but those on the lowest bands will be lucky to see a pension in excess of £8k for 30+ years service.

This is what really annoys me about the press and morons who read the likes of the Daily Mail or listen to the BBC. They take ONE example, and then dress up the story to claim every PS worker is on the same deal.

Generali

dori2o wrote: »

Incorrect I'm afraid.

I work in a HMRC contact Centre. The equivalent job in the private sector would be something like accountancy, especially for places such as TAXBACK.COM where their basic salary is in excess of £20k plus commission, medical insurance, free parking.

Then theres traditional accountants who complete tax returns etc for people, average salary in excess of £30k.

Debt collection is another similar private sector, again the average basic is £20k or more plus commission, etc, etc.

I get £18434PA, no commission, no healthcare plan, no company car, no free parking.

You omit your biggest non-salary benefit which is your pension. According to The Economist, that would add at least 40% to your salary (link) although IMO that figure should be higher or lower depending on whether you are towards the younger or older end of the spectrum and whether you are a non-smoker or a smoker.

The bloke at taxback.com will be getting 5% of his salary put into a defined contribution scheme if he's lucky. So salary + pension if he's on £23,434 (ie £5,000 more than you) is £24,605. Salary plus pension for you is, on average, £25,807. Plus you get greater job security, and most likely better sick and maternity/paternity benefits. Plus an extra 2 and a half days of public holidays* (link) which means you work 1% less than the bloke at tax calc.

Holidays are dependant on the department it seems but at HMRC you get 22 days in your first year, 25 in year 2 and 30 days after 10 years (link) whereas the bloke at taxcalc will be getting 20 days so you get 10% more holiday in year one, 25% more in years 2-9 and 50% more in year 10.

So before sick days etc, in your second year at HMRC you will be contracted to work 224.5 days whereas your mate at taxcalc is going to be working 232 days.

So he gets £106.06 gross per day worked including pension, you gross £114.95 per day worked including pension. Assuming he earns a headline £5,000 more a year which is a pretty generous assumption.

You're obviously not in London as you're not on the London pay scale. According to this average salaries for debt collectors range from 16-18k outside London. You do pretty well IMO.















*According to Hansard, Civil Servants have the following two and a half 'privilege days':

• Maundy Thursday afternoon
• The Queen's birthday
• An additional day at Christmas

FrankieBoyle

nic_santorini wrote: »

and my public pension will be about £25k per year, so it is not massive.

You see, this is what I find so F*ing annoying - I only get £25K-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you know that I would need a pension pot of £400k to generate an income of £25K in retirement?
Still going out on strike? Still expect the rest of us to keep you in manor you would like?

roddydogs

Could I point out something ive yet to see argued

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in the Civil Service particularly you have lots of "Dead Wood" (People 50+ just waiting to retire, doing the absolute minimum) the pension they will get is generious, but the maximum after 30 years service will be 50% of final salary. If they are forced to work on, they will cost their full wages for very little work, and will block the way for others to "Move up the scale" and new staff to be taken on.

sammyjammy

thescouselander wrote: »

Really? What are you basing that on? Just taking the civil service as an example you might be able to demonstrate that at the lowest grades pay is more than in the private sector. But as you get higher up in the civil service the pay is demonstrably less than an equivalent private sector job.

Trouble is probably 50% of those higher paid Civil servants don't know they're !!!! from their elbow so wouldn't last five minutes in the puiblic sector. The civil service is definitely a two tier workplace with jobs for the boys in the higher ranks.

sammyjammy

roddydogs wrote: »

Could I point out something ive yet to see argued

---

in the Civil Service particularly you have lots of "Dead Wood" (People 50+ just waiting to retire, doing the absolute minimum) the pension they will get is generious, but the maximum after 30 years service will be 50% of final salary. If they are forced to work on, they will cost their full wages for very little work, and will block the way for others to "Move up the scale" and new staff to be taken on.

What a sweeping generalisation! So I'm a hard worker who earns every penny I get paid but suddenyl when I get to 50 I'll sit on by bum all day and do as little as possible? Balderdash.

The days of career civil servants are very much in the minority these days, a large number of those receiving a CS pension in the future will only have spent a few years working there and therefore won't be entitled to a full pension anyway.

Is it in the Hutton report that 30 years service will give a full pension? It's currently 40 years.