Time to start a thread on public sector pensions

bendix

Who gives a damn if public sector unions go on strike? There is a seachange of opinion in the country, and it's been developing over the last few years. It is the distinction between those who work in the private and public sectors, and there is growing resentment and anger from the first group to the second, as the attitudes, sense of entitlement and working practices of the latter are revealed more and more.

Five years ago, mums and dads would support a police or nurses strike. Now they know better. I very much doubt we will see a repeat of the headlines from the early 1980s which suggested we all support our 'Angels' on strike.

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

With respect, if someone signs a contract that gives me property, I do have rights over that property. That is why Hutton is not grabbing already accrued rights.

I doubt this will save any money in reality. Removing final salary schemes either means that salaries will increase to compensate (due to market forces). The alternative would be comparable private sector salaries will fall to match. Or that a lack of quality competition makes it easier for me to gain and maintain promotion.

I scratch my head when free marketeers argue that you can just cut salaries without there being consequences.

The problem here is the difference between the public and private sectors.

If a private company signs a contract with you that they will pay a huge future benefit to you which they ultimately can't afford then they will go into administration and the benefit won't be paid. This happened with US car companies that offered their staff future health benefits that they couldn't afford to pay. The companies went into administration or something similar and those benefits aren't as generous as they were.

The problem with the future pensions that have been promised by Governments is that the contracts that have been signed are probably unaffordable but there isn't a system for contracts being overturned by administration or bankruptcy.

What the Government can do legally (AIUI) is that they can change the law to change the promise as the law trumps a contract. An example of that would be if I had signed a contract to pay an employee £2.00 an hour before the minimum wage came in, once the minimum wage was introduced I would have to pay more than I was obliged to in my contract as I now have to pay a minimum of a fiver an hour or whatever it was.

The Government even recognises this fact in their accounts. The stated reason why no liability is accrued in the national accounts for Civil Servant and state pensions is because the Government can change the law and thus not pay.

Clearly as a free marketeer I think that fair, legal contracts freely signed between two parties should be honoured. As a realist I understand that if the money isn't there to make good on a promise then the promise is going to be broken. It's not whether the promise will be broken but how that will be interesting to see.

Loughton_Monkey

I have decided that next Monday, I will personally go on strike as a protest over the Hutton report recommendations being too soft and too slow to implement.

Since I am early retired and do not go to work, I will spend the day cursing those public sector workers who don't understand how well they have done over the last 15 years. I will also spend some time reminiscing about having had an education from teachers who were, themselves, educated - rather than from those who "done some history" at school and therefore feel qualified to teach it.

In addition, I propose putting an extra slice of lemon in my very large Gin & Tonic, to mark my sour feelings about how tax payers' money is spent and sometimes wasted. Apart from that, like any public middle management bureaucrat, I will do extremely little.

abaxas

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Since I am early retired and do not go to work, I will spend the day cursing those public sector workers who don't understand how well they have done over the last 15 years. I will also spend some time reminiscing about having had an education from teachers who were, themselves, educated - rather than from those who "done some history" at school and therefore feel qualified to teach it.

Teachers now have a greater level of qualification than those of the past.

But like most things, is the qualification actually worth anything.

Sorry for being OT.

Wookster

ILW wrote: »

Why is it that virtually every time you hear a public sector union spokesman bleating about how hard done by their members are, they always have to say "it's the bankers fault"?

Its the lazy cop out. Just blame the bankers and it absolves you.

The cowards way out really.

ILW

Is it actually possible to fail a degree course?

abaxas

ILW wrote: »

Is it actually possible to fail a degree course?

Only by not having 'special circumstances'.

Ie if you do nothing then lie. You can get a degree for free.

Homosexuality is a good one to use. I failed bacause I came out...

Loughton_Monkey

ILW wrote: »

Is it actually possible to fail a degree course?

My niece got one without ever taking an examination [at University that is].

ILW

I just wondered as a friend of mine is doing a degree as a mature student. It all seems to based on course work and anything that isn't up to standard is just returned to put right. Seems a bit strange to me.

blueboy43

Generali wrote: »

Clearly as a free marketeer I think that fair, legal contracts freely signed between two parties should be honoured. As a realist I understand that if the money isn't there to make good on a promise then the promise is going to be broken. It's not whether the promise will be broken but how that will be interesting to see.

I think its fairly clear in the short term; accrued rights stay, but future accrual is based on career average or something else.

The government and propenents of change should focus on the real big winners of the current system. Judges pay about 2.5% of salary. They can retire on a full pension at 65 after serving just 5 years.

£150 million per year - just on judges pensions.

People need to focus on the fact that the big losers will be the pretty wealthy. The judges, higher paid civil servants, doctors, head teachers etc etc.