Investigating transactions... frozen account .... financial loss

AAAA24

Azrael_1701 wrote: »

The bank may need to get permission from SOCA to freeze the accounts funds completelly.... that cant happen straight away

So the got the permission just after I withdrew money from my account at 4:30 on Saturday morning bearing in mind that I spent nearly £1000 hours before my account was frozen? I think that I have been treated unfairly and even if the bank had any suspicions about the transactions they should have acted in a way that does not put its customers in a worse position after the investigation as in my case a loss of £500 and cashless for 5 days.

Azrael_1701

AAAA24 wrote: »

So the got the permission just after I withdrew money from my account at 4:30 on Saturday morning bearing in mind that I spent nearly £1000 hours before my account was frozen? I think that I have been treated unfairly and even if the bank had any suspicions about the transactions they should have acted in a way that does not put its customers in a worse position after the investigation as in my case a loss of £500 and cashless for 5 days.

Large transaction in from overseas + spending/withdrawing of said money a few days later + buying of foreign currency.

Are all indicators of money laundering, happening together in a short space of time. If the bank suspected money laundering, even for a second, the account would be frozen, and a report made to SOCA. If this has happened, the bank isnt allowed to tell you, so more than likely your complaint would go nowhere. You could escalate to the FOS, but once they find out its a SOCA case, they would probably reject it too, and they wouldnt tell you either.

AAAA24

Azrael_1701 wrote: »

Large transaction in from overseas + spending/withdrawing of said money a few days later + buying of foreign currency.

Are all indicators of money laundering, happening together in a short space of time. If the bank suspected money laundering, even for a second, the account would be frozen, and a report made to SOCA. If this has happened, the bank isnt allowed to tell you, so more than likely your complaint would go nowhere. You could escalate to the FOS, but once they find out its a SOCA case, they would probably reject it too, and they wouldnt tell you either.

The same happened 12 days prior to the incident. I received 2000 pounds and I withdrew all of it the next day from the local branch. No questions asked no problems whatsoever.

Now Im wondering if Im going to find out at all what happened? Thinking of visiting the bank and having a chat with the branch manager.

blueberrypie

The branch manager will probably not be able to tell you anything more than the status of your account - which you already know.

Systems for spotting fraud/money laundering look at a number of triggers, and it's often the case that the account is flagged due to a series of transactions, rather than just one. Several transactions over a number of days/weeks/months might be the reason - or more than x transactions in a specified period. In other words, it might be that you've had two similar series of transactions (funds received from overseas, followed by a cash withdrawal) in the space of two weeks. It's not likely to be as simple as that, but you get the idea.

It could also be that activity on the sender's account has led to his accounts and transactions being scrutinised, and that yours has been flagged as a result of that.

As opinions4u has said, the series of transactions you describe in the last few weeks look very similar to what often happens in money-laundering, and it sounds possible (perhaps even likely) that that is the reason your account is frozen. Nobody here (or in your bank) is accusing you of money-laundering, but what you've been doing looks like it - and banks are legally required to report certain kinds of transactions, and to investigate - and are not allowed to give you much information about this. Arguing with the bank about what they're doing or claiming it's unfair or unjustified or that you are due compensation for it is probably a waste of your time and energy, and isn't likely to get you what you want, which is for your account to be unfrozen and the funds to be available. That will only happen when they're satisfied that the transactions are genuine and legal - your best bet right now is simply to be pleasant and cooperative.

zppp

AAAA24 wrote: »

The same happened 12 days prior to the incident. I received 2000 pounds and I withdrew all of it the next day from the local branch. No questions asked no problems whatsoever.

Now Im wondering if Im going to find out at all what happened? Thinking of visiting the bank and having a chat with the branch manager.

The situation is that as I mentioned above, if they have reported you to SOCA, they must keep the report confidential and the firm can be punished for not reporting;

Proceeds of Crime Act 2002
The Proceeds of Crime Act is UK primary legislation. Part 7 of the Act outlines the money laundering offences; what constitutes criminal property; sets out the legal requirement to make a disclosure or Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) and the offences of failing to disclose; and details a requirement to obtain consent to carry out a prohibited act, placing time restrictions on SOCA and Law Enforcement to issue consent. The three main money laundering offences are:

• concealing, disguising, converting, transferring, or removing criminal property (s327)
• arranging or facilitating criminal property (s328)
• acquiring, using or possessing criminal property (s329)

Under primary legislation, a conviction for one of the three money laundering offences can incur a 14-year sentence and an unlimited fine. It also requires any individual or company in the regulated sector who either: a) knows or suspects or b) has reasonable grounds to know or suspect, that another person may be engaged in money laundering, or that any or all of the property they are dealing with may be criminal property to report their suspicion of money laundering to a constable, a customs officer or nominated officer (MLRO or equivalent) and is made in the form and manner (if any) prescribed for the purposes. The nominated officer must report their suspicion to SOCA.

I would suggest that if you are paying in large sums into your account to clear the payments and then debit the funds as soon as they become available does look suspicious.

AAAA24

blueberrypie wrote: »

The branch manager will probably not be able to tell you anything more than the status of your account - which you already know.

Systems for spotting fraud/money laundering look at a number of triggers, and it's often the case that the account is flagged due to a series of transactions, rather than just one. Several transactions over a number of days/weeks/months might be the reason - or more than x transactions in a specified period. In other words, it might be that you've had two similar series of transactions (funds received from overseas, followed by a cash withdrawal) in the space of two weeks. It's not likely to be as simple as that, but you get the idea.

It could also be that activity on the sender's account has led to his accounts and transactions being scrutinised, and that yours has been flagged as a result of that.

As opinions4u has said, the series of transactions you describe in the last few weeks look very similar to what often happens in money-laundering, and it sounds possible (perhaps even likely) that that is the reason your account is frozen. Nobody here (or in your bank) is accusing you of money-laundering, but what you've been doing looks like it - and banks are legally required to report certain kinds of transactions, and to investigate - and are not allowed to give you much information about this. Arguing with the bank about what they're doing or claiming it's unfair or unjustified or that you are due compensation for it is probably a waste of your time and energy, and isn't likely to get you what you want, which is for your account to be unfrozen and the funds to be available. That will only happen when they're satisfied that the transactions are genuine and legal - your best bet right now is simply to be pleasant and cooperative.

The account has been unfrozen and the funds available now. Just realized that the bank did actually just freeze the transaction under investigation and not the whole account but as I had less than that amount in my account i wasnt able to withdraw any money, and I dont think SOCA was involved as the manager told me on the phone that a manual authorisation was set on the aforementioned transaction and that I am able to use my card (that was on the Monday after the incident). plus I got a call from the fraud department on Monday morning to confirm my details and last transactions and when I called customer service on the same day they told me that the funds had not cleared into my account????

izools

AAAA24 wrote: »

The same happened 12 days prior to the incident. I received 2000 pounds and I withdrew all of it the next day from the local branch. No questions asked no problems whatsoever.

Now Im wondering if Im going to find out at all what happened? Thinking of visiting the bank and having a chat with the branch manager.

So the first one or two incidents were isolated and may not have triggered the banks money laundering checks but the third time you've built up a picture of this behaviour, which in your case is honest, but is similiar to that of someone who isn't.

In this case the bank fulfilled their obligations and, if not asked to by SOCA, referred the case to their internal money laundering team.

Your account may not have been flagged as soon as the money went in, but soon after the withdrawals were made.

I'd be seething too if the law and / or terms of my account cost me £500, or any amount of money, when I had made no misdemeanour especially if the law allows such things to happen.

A hideous lesson well leared.

AAAA24

izools wrote: »

So the first one or two incidents were isolated and may not have triggered the banks money laundering checks but the third time you've built up a picture of this behaviour, which in your case is honest, but is similiar to that of someone who isn't.

In this case the bank fulfilled their obligations and, if not asked to by SOCA, referred the case to their internal money laundering team.

Your account may not have been flagged as soon as the money went in, but soon after the withdrawals were made.

I'd be seething too if the law and / or terms of my account cost me £500, or any amount of money, when I had made no misdemeanour especially if the law allows such things to happen.

A hideous lesson well leared.

Yes, a pill very hard to swallow.... on the other hand contacted the airlines (I need to at least get something back from the ticket money) and I was told that I can apply for a tax refund which is in the range of 200 pounds which I did. Takes a little sting out of the whole situation.

jennifernil

Also shows it is a good idea to have a second source of funds just in case an account does get frozen.

If you had had such a second source then presumably you would have been able to continue your trip.

AAAA24

jennifernil wrote: »

Also shows it is a good idea to have a second source of funds just in case an account does get frozen.

If you had had such a second source then presumably you would have been able to continue your trip.

yeah just opened an account with another bank just in case this happens again.