Being charged far too much - help

gdoodle

I moved flat 9 days ago, and got a bill through from South West Water for £96.78 for the period 15/02/11 - 31/03/11 (i.e. 6 weeks)

Now, to put this into perspective, I am a single occupier living in a flat of 3 (relatively) small rooms, no garden, no bath, no dishwasher and no washing machine. I work 6 days a week so apart from evenings I am home 1 day a week. I am very good at conserving water, doing 1 basin of washing up a day, never leaving taps on, etc

My partner lives 5min walk away in a house over double the size, 3 occupants, bath, garden, dishwasher and washing machine. Their bill for the period 06/02/11 - 31/03/11 (so 9 days more than mine) is between £60 - £70.

The difference? My flat's Rateable Value of Property is 150, their house's is 68.

My flat is new (was a shared house with shop attached, now 3 seperate flats and the shop are all billed independently. I'm the first person to live in my flat), so am wondering if this has something to do with it.

I tried phoning them earlier, but the phone monkey on the other end just kept repeating "that's your rateable value of property" (maybe he was more a phone parrot) and wouldn't actually listen to what i was trying to explain, or offer any help.

I am getting a water meter installed, but until that happens I a) don't see why I should have to pay for such an extortionate amount of water that I obviously haven't and won't use and b) can barely afford it having just paid for a deposit, rent, moving costs, electricity, council tax, etc in the space of a week and a half

Any help/advice please?

macman

SWW have no control whatsoever over the RV of your property, that is set by the VO. So Mr Parrot was quite correct.
And the size of the property bears no direct relation to it's rateable value-it is determined by the estimated rental value at the time of the last valuation, which was back in 1991.
Since the property is new, it will have been valued more recently, hence the apparent anomaly.
Also bear in mind that if you have moved into SWW's area from elsewhere in the country, that water charges there are up to twice as high as other parts of the UK.

Cardew

gdoodle wrote: »

The difference? My flat's Rateable Value of Property is 150, their house's is 68.

My flat is new (was a shared house with shop attached, now 3 seperate flats and the shop are all billed independently. I'm the first person to live in my flat), so am wondering if this has something to do with it.

If your flat is new it cannot have a Rateable Value(RV) as they ceased to be issued in 1990 - obviously properties existing prior to 1990 retained their RV if they didn't elect for a meter.

I suspect that your RV is that for the whole of the original property prior to conversion. It would not be unknown for all three flats to be paying charges based on the same RV(the shop should have a commercial, not domestic, rate)

On the other hand it is not unknown for the owner to arrange matters so one(or more) flat pays and the others get away without payment.

gdoodle

macman wrote: »

SWW have no control whatsoever over the RV of your property, that is set by the VO. So Mr Parrot was quite correct

I understand that SWW have no control over the RV, but my problem with Mr Parrot is that when I asked if there was a way of getting your RV checked and then adjusted if needs be, (and when I tried explaining that it was a new flat so I wanted to know how the RV was decided) he offered nothing more helpful than that sentence

macman wrote: »

Also bear in mind that if you have moved into SWW's area from elsewhere in the country, that water charges there are up to twice as high as other parts of the UK.

I've lived in Cornwall all my life apart from 3 years in the SE for University. My family have lived in the same 10mile area for the last 20+ years, and have never known a bill as high for such little potential usage as I have

Cardew wrote: »

If your flat is new it cannot have a Rateable Value(RV) as they ceased to be issued in 1990 - obviously properties existing prior to 1990 retained their RV if they didn't elect for a meter.

I suspect that your RV is that for the whole of the original property prior to conversion. It would not be unknown for all three flats to be paying charges based on the same RV(the shop should have a commercial, not domestic, rate)

On the other hand it is not unknown for the owner to arrange matters so one(or more) flat pays and the others get away without payment.

I will ask my landlord what the RV for the whole property was and what it is now for each flat. She's organised meters for each flat and has been very fair and accommodating so far so don't think she's the swindling type

Thanks to both of you for your comments :beer:

Cardew

gdoodle wrote: »

I understand that SWW have no control over the RV, but my problem with Mr Parrot is that when I asked if there was a way of getting your RV checked and then adjusted if needs be, (and when I tried explaining that it was a new flat so I wanted to know how the RV was decided) he offered nothing more helpful than that sentence

The water company will have no idea how or when the RV was calculated, and neither will the council.

The RV was for the period prior to 1990 and was the value on which 'local taxes' (i.e. what is now called Council Tax) were raised.

It was based on the notional RENT that the property could command and had nothing to do with VALUE of the property.

The last general RV valuation in UK was in 1973 and there were many factors that contributed to the RV assessment. Location and if the property was modernised(in 1973 that meant central heating, modern bathrooms kitchens etc) amenities in local area etc. It was perfectly possible to have a large unmodernised detached house with lots of land having a much lower RV than a small estate semi.

The RV system was abolished in 1990 and superceed by the Poll Tax and then Council Tax. It became mandatory for water meters to be fitted to new properties from that date.

Many people have queried their RV and there is absolutely no way to find out. Most councils have long since scrapped their records of RV.

Incidentally the RV of £150 for your flat is pretty low, and your partner's house of £68 almost unbelievable. I suspect in 1973 it had outside toilets etc and was pretty undesirable. An average RV for a newish(post 1973) semi was usually in the region of £250 to £300.

macman

Of course there is always the possibility that you have been wrongly billed. But now you know the RV, you simply need to check the calculation against the figures which should be available on the SWW website.
If you have requested a meter they are obliged to fit it within 3 months. If it cannot be fitted for technical reasons, you can ask to go on assessed charges instead.

Gothicfairy

Can I suggest you check the VOA https://www.voa.gov.uk
Put your postcode into the council tax section and see if it lists one house or flats. If it lists one house then the water company will more then likely still have it listed as such as well as they use the voa.
That should give you an idea of what is going on.

However as has already been said, if the conversion was legal then you can not have an RV anymore and it would be either billed on the meters or as assessed as part of the sub alt process.
However even if it was legal if no one has bothered to tell the water company then they would not know and remember that builders etc also fit meters and then just let the water company know down the line