Failed ESA claim won't convert to Job seekers?

Anodyne

A few days ago I found out I was not entitled to ESA.

I scored 0 points on the ATOS medical assesment, despite the fact that my GP and psychiatrist advises I am unfit for work.

Now it's been such a long drawn out process with ATOS making appointment mistakes and generally dragging their heels. The claim dates back to 22/9/10. The medical was on 07/01/11 and they've only just come to a decision.

I'm aware that I can appeal against ATOS but everything I've heard and read makes this sound completley futile. Even if the appeal granted me 14 extra points I still wouldn't qualify!

So I was advised to bite the bullet, convert the claim into JSA and show that I'm actively seeking work.

Obviously I'm not happy about the way ATOS has been used to invalidate every other medical opinion available. But it's been a really difficult few months, I've had some help from family and friends but not a penny in benefits since last August. My housing claim has also been held up by ATOS and the ESA decision.

Basically I need some money or I'm likely to starve and find myself out on the streets.

But there's a serious catch 22 with the back dating and retrospective claim...if I say I was unfit for work during that period I won't be entitled to JSA.

But I was! I wouldn't have been making the ESA claim otherwise.

Today I had my JSA interview, got the new claiml setup and was given a JSA5 form so I can apply for the backdated payments. So I'm posting hear to ask for advice on how to fill out that form.

Should I just say 'OK, me and my GP got it all wrong, I was fit for work the whole time. You're right Mr Cameron'.

Would that wash? Would they not expect some kind of evidence that I was seeking work?

I can't help but feel I'm about to get royally screwed over.

dmg24

Who has advised you that you should claim JSA?

tcr_3

You can't have it both ways, on the one hand claiming to be so unwell that you can't work ... and on the other expecting JSA to backdate their new claim all the way back on the grounds that you're fit & available for work. I don't expect JSA to backdate at all, tbh, there was nothing to prevent you applying for JSA sooner plus from what you say I guess you weren't actively seeking work during those months either.

So I doubt it matters what you put on the JSA5, I can't see them backdating it anyway.

You've got the right of appeal against the ESA decision, even though you're now claiming JSA, obtain form GL24 from the Job Centre/Benefit Delivery Centre & get your appeal in. Meantime you can apply for crisis loans to tide you over until they get your JSA sorted.

Why didn't they pay ESA to you pending the result of the medical ? Had you failed to attend a medical before the one on 7th January ?

OBrother2001

I don't really understand why you would need a backdated claim for JSA because you have failed the ESA medical?

Whilst you were waiting for the result of the medical (during the first 13 weeks of your claim) you should have been paid the basic rate of £65.45 which is the rate you would have got on JSA anyway.

rogerblack

OBrother2001 wrote: »

I don't really understand why you would need a backdated claim for JSA because you have failed the ESA medical?

Whilst you were waiting for the result of the medical (during the first 13 weeks of your claim) you should have been paid the basic rate of £65.45 which is the rate you would have got on JSA anyway.

"ATOS making appointment mistakes" - I'd guess that the original poster missed an appointment - this can in some cases mean that they don't pay you until you pass the medical.

As to the number of points. As I understand it, ESA failed claimants are now often phoned up and told 'don't bother appealing'.

It is not uncommon for the number of points a tribunal feels appropriate to vastly differ.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch42.pdf - these are the descriptors - I strongly suggest you read them closely if applying, and work out objectively if you meet enough of them.
Try to think if a random person inthe street would agree with your interpretation.

You can also ask for a payment on the grounds of hardship as I understand it.

BiscuitCrumb

I assume you want to backdate from the date of your ESA ending up to your new claim to JSA? If so, then they will not expect you to be able to show you were actively seeking etc for work. When you return your JSA5 the adviser should mark it as "late notification of benefit ending" (or similar) so the Decision Maker can allow it for benefit purposes.

As long as you called to make your claim to JSA when you received notification that your ESA was ending you should be okay. If (for example) someone waits a couple of months before making a claim to JSA, then the process would not be straightforward and they would expect evidence of being available and actively seeking work when completing the JSA5.

Anodyne

Thanks for the replies.

It was whoever was manning the line on the ESA helpdesk who advised me the only benefit I could claim was JSA.

I'm not trying to have anything both ways. At this stage I'd be happy with half a way. And ecstatic with one way.

During this period of about 4 months. My GP advised me the clinical depression which left me struggling to get out of bed in a morning rendered me unfit for work. I tended to agree.

My argument is that regardless of whether I was deemed fit for work during this period I should be entitled to *some* benefit payment.

I haven't been paid anything at all. No basic or assesment rate.

I did fail to attend a medical, because ATOS failed to notify me about the first appointment they made.

The second one I did attend, to be told it had been postponed. Which they didn't notify me about either.

So why did the ESA advisor tell me to claim backdated JSA if there was no chance whatsoever it would get approved? Who knows.

I know a lot of people do appeal the medical decision and I'll carry on reading up on the process but it really does sound like a waste of time in my case.

dmg24

If you wish to edit out the bad language in your post you can do so by clicking the Edit button.

Can you clarify some dates - when did your ESA end, when did you receive the decision letter and when did you apply for JSA?

parsons

dmg24 wrote: »

If you wish to edit out the bad language in your post you can do so by clicking the Edit button.

Can you clarify some dates - when did your ESA end, when did you receive the decision letter and when did you apply for JSA?

I think you will find that the OP started to receive ESA in Sept 10, and missed a medical in about Nov 10.

So I presume that he hasn't had any money since Nov 10, and was waiting for the 2nd medical and the result to get paid + his back pay.

As he failed he will get nothing.

He couldn't really claim JSA in November when his ESA payments stopped as he would have had to show that he was looking for work as well as having a new medcical to prove that he couldn't work in Jan 11.

So he was caught in the middle. Can't claim anything between when the ESA stopped and he received the failure letter!
He can now claim JSA but not the backdated period.

viktory

Anodyne wrote: »

My argument is that regardless of whether I was deemed fit for work during this period I should be entitled to *some* benefit payment..

Your argument will fail on the simple fact that in order to claim Job Seekers Allowance you have to demonstrate you are, well, seeking a job :cool:

You should be examining why you were not getting ESA during the course of your claim.

Anodyne

The date of the ESA claim is from the 22nd August 2010 to yesterday, when I made the JSA claim.

I actually made the claim in October but it was backdated at the time to August because that's when I last received any payment.

The ATOS appointment I missed was in November.

The one I attended to be told it was cancelled was Jan 5th then I finally actually had the assesment on Jan 7th.

I realise that JSA is not the 'appropriate' benefit for this period I'm trying to claim for, but I have been left a sum total of zero other options.

The lady who setup the JSA claim today was really helpful. She took the time to answer all my questions and went to double check a couple of points with a collegue.

But as an organisation, the DWPs bottom line is 'just go die in a gutter, and try not to make the place look untidy, thanks'.