Chancel Repair Liability

Richard_Webster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Webster
If you get perpetual cover now and the "rights" have not been registered then registration later does not invalidate the insurance unless you did anything to encourage the registration to take place.
The longest lasting insurance I was offered was for 25 years and with a limit of £100k total payments. If you are buying a house to live in probably until you retire then 25 years isn't long enough - and in 25 years time £100k may not even be a great deal of money.

I also think the house will lose value with a definite Chancel Repair Liability on it. It would be like a house liable to flooding or next to a electricity pylon/mobile phone mast. Simply the fact that a large percentage of the population wouldn't even walk through the door for a viewing would decrease it's value.

Well, did you query with your solicitors whether they could get you perpetual cover and what it would cost? Some firms such as my own can get £1million cover (for an ordinary house with not too much land) in perpetuity for £15. It is on a block policy and only available to my clients and their buyers. Prices have come down and this may not have been available a year or two ago.

gauly

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Well, did you query with your solicitors whether they could get you perpetual cover and what it would cost? Some firms such as my own can get £1million cover (for an ordinary house with not too much land) in perpetuity for £15. It is on a block policy and only available to my clients and their buyers. Prices have come down and this may not have been available a year or two ago.

Well, fortunately we weren't liable for Chancel Repair but perpetual cover for £1million would certainly have solved the problem. It was also going to cost a lot more than £15!! I wonder what percentage of people actually get proper insurance for this problem because the general public seems to be offered much worse terms and most of the policies you can't even pass on to the new owners.

Richard_Webster

most of the policies you can't even pass on to the new owners.

If you don't sell until after 13 October 2013 if there has been no registration against your property then your buyer won't need a policy - so some people were prepared to take that risk.

ManchesterLizard

We are due to exchange today or Monday and our buyers solicitor has just bought this matter up and asked us to to pay for the policy. Our reaction has been no, it's up to the buyer if they wish to take the risk off having the policy or not. We certainly wouldn't expect the seller of the property we're buying to pay for it. As it is our solicitor has a group policy that covers every house that they sell so we don't need to worry about it.

However thinking about this logically, if our house is liable for the cost of repairs, then since the whole street was built at the same time, the other houses must surely be liable as well. There are 60 house on our street, and about 1500 on our estate (all built on the same land). Say the church does decide it wants £100k for repairs and makes a claim against all the properties, then surely all houses on our estate are liable for the repairs this equates to £66.67 per house. I understand the cost of repair could be higher but reading the article above regarding the couple that were faced with the bill, it appears theirs was the only property liable.

The question I was wondering is surely everyone is liable, even if you purchased the property years ago? In which case we've been liable for the 13 years we've lived in the property, all our neighbours that have lived here longer are also liable, yet we were all blissfully unaware until today. I would also love to see the church take to court all the non-payers, surely it would cost the church more to legally challenge these people than to pay for the repairs themselves?

gauly

ManchesterLizard wrote: »

We are due to exchange today or Monday and our buyers solicitor has just bought this matter up and asked us to to pay for the policy. Our reaction has been no, it's up to the buyer if they wish to take the risk off having the policy or not. We certainly wouldn't expect the seller of the property we're buying to pay for it. As it is our solicitor has a group policy that covers every house that they sell so we don't need to worry about it.

However thinking about this logically, if our house is liable for the cost of repairs, then since the whole street was built at the same time, the other houses must surely be liable as well. There are 60 house on our street, and about 1500 on our estate (all built on the same land). Say the church does decide it wants £100k for repairs and makes a claim against all the properties, then surely all houses on our estate are liable for the repairs this equates to £66.67 per house. I understand the cost of repair could be higher but reading the article above regarding the couple that were faced with the bill, it appears theirs was the only property liable.

The question I was wondering is surely everyone is liable, even if you purchased the property years ago? In which case we've been liable for the 13 years we've lived in the property, all our neighbours that have lived here longer are also liable, yet we were all blissfully unaware until today. I would also love to see the church take to court all the non-payers, surely it would cost the church more to legally challenge these people than to pay for the repairs themselves?

In the Wallbank case that you refer to, they were the only ones liable. In the case of your old estate then you are probably right - thousands of people are liable. When I bought a house I was told that the problem is you are jointly and severally (think thats right?) liable which means the church can just chose one person to pick on - probably someone who appears to have plenty of money. That person can then ask/sue everyone else for their share. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to get £67 off 1,500 people?

I do agree it is a bit strange that current home owners haven't been targeted by insurance companies selling chancel repair policies. I don't see why you wouldn't need one as much as people who have just moved in.

whois

Hi I am buying a house and my solicitor (to be) has quoted for chancel repair indeminity approx £30. After going through this thread my understanding is that I should go for a full search and if chancel liability is indicated, just walk away. I doesn't matter if you have insurance (25 years) or not. your property value will siginifacantly fall if your property get registered for chancel liability by 2013 by a church. Insurance seems like a good option for current owners.

If full search identify chancel liability, am I obliged to report it to someone for example land registry?

DVardysShadow

whois wrote: »

Hi I am buying a house and my solicitor (to be) has quoted for chancel repair indeminity approx £30. After going through this thread my understanding is that I should go for a full search and if chancel liability is indicated, just walk away. I doesn't matter if you have insurance (25 years) or not. your property value will siginifacantly fall if your property get registered for chancel liability by 2013 by a church. Insurance seems like a good option for current owners.

If full search identify chancel liability, am I obliged to report it to someone for example land registry?

As I read this, you are looking at buying and you would walk away if you discovered chancel liability. So you would mind your own business and not interfere with the registration of someone else's property.

whois

DVardysShadow wrote: »

As I read this, you are looking at buying and you would walk away if you discovered chancel liability. So you would mind your own business and not interfere with the registration of someone else's property.

I don't know what makes you think that I am interested in registering someone else's property for chancel repair liability. Well, I am not; on the contrary, I am concerned that my full search should not harm the seller even after I walk away.

I was just asking a question, if I do a full search and find chancel liability, does that make me liable (legally) to report it to land registry or someone else?

After going through the thread, I would say that as a buyer, I would want to go for a full chancel liability search and find it for sure if that property has chancel liability or not.

Chancel Repair Insurance is useless for me (as a buyer) as it does not protect me against being registered by 2013 and does not indemnify me against loss in value of property due to the registration.

It only protects against chancel repair claim by church for 25 years. That is why it is more suitable for current owners.
I was not aware of the meaning of chancel repair liability before receiving conveyance quote today morning. I am thankful to everyone for providing very useful information in this thread.
Please correct me if my understanding about full chancel liability search is not accurate.

Cumbrian_Male

My understanding is if you do a full search and the property is liable then your solicitor would notify the vendor's solicitor who would be duty bound to register it with the land registry.

Richard_Webster

My understanding is if you do a full search and the property is liable then your solicitor would notify the vendor's solicitor who would be duty bound to register it with the land registry.

Interesting point. The view I have always taken is that if a buyer does the full search and proceeds to complete and then register the transfer at the Land Registry then his solicitor must register the liability at that point.

After going through the thread, I would say that as a buyer, I would want to go for a full chancel liability search and find it for sure if that property has chancel liability or not. For the reason explained above I wouldn't do that.

Chancel Repair Insurance is useless for me (as a buyer) as it does not protect me against being registered by 2013 and does not indemnify me against loss in value of property due to the registration.
I'm not sure there would be loss of value if you have a perpetual policy. After all the liability is only contingent in any event. There is nothing to say that the particualr Church will actually need repairs to its chancel such as to make it worth while pursuing you for the money.

Also of course the Church in question would have to cope with the appallingly negative PR that any claim would bring. The sooner the right to make these claims is abolished the better.